[I. 6 PM Call to Order, Board of Supervisors (Chair Neil Spoonhower) and Planning]
[00:01:50]
IT IS MY HONOR TO CALL TOGETHER THE GOSSEN BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOR OUR JOINT WORK SESSION.
I CALL THE ORDER THE, UH, GOSSEN PLANNING COMMISSION FOR OUR JUNE 15TH WORK SESSION.
WE THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE A CROWD, WHICH IS AMAZING, CONSIDERING YOU COULD HAVE WATCHED THIS ALL LIVE STREAM.
SO IT'S GREAT TO SEE EVERYBODY'S FACES.
UM, THERE ARE AGENDAS ON THE BACK, UH, WALL, AND WE'LL HAVE THINGS ON THE SCREEN AS WELL.
BUT WE'LL START THE MEETING WITH AN INVOCATION,
[II. Invocation]
UM, THAT I'M, UM, HONORED TO GIVE.AND THEN, UH, CHAIR ROCKER CHARLIE WILL LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
SO PLEASE STAND IF YOU'RE ABLE.
HEAVENLY COUNTY, WE THANK YOU, HEAVENLY GOD.
WE THANK YOU FOR THIS, UH, COMMUNITY THAT YOU'VE PUT TOGETHER.
LORD, UH, YOU'VE BROUGHT US HERE ALL FOR A REASON.
AND, UH, THIS IS WHAT WE, WHERE WE CALL HOME, LORD.
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DO, MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS WE CAN, UH, SO THAT WE CAN SERVE THE CITIZENS OF, OF THIS GREAT COMMUNITY, LORD, AND THAT WE CAN ULTIMATELY SERVE YOU GOD.
SO PLEASE, WE INVITE YOU HERE NOW AS WE SPEAK, UH, GIVE US WISDOM, UH, TO MAKE THE PLANS THAT, UH, ARE GONNA HELP OUR COUNTY, UH, BE THE COUNTY THAT YOU INTENDED TO BE.
IT'S IN, IN YOUR SON'S NAME WE PRAY, AMEN.
[III. Pledge]
FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC, WHICH IT STANDS.ONE NATION, GOD, INDIVISIBLE, THE LIBERTY AND JUSTICE.
[IV. New Business]
SO THIS IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN A NORMAL MEETING.IF YOU COME TO OUR BOARD MEETINGS, UM, WE'RE REALLY JUST GONNA HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY AS THE TWO BOARDS TO, TO TALK, UH, UH, TO, TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WE ARE WITH THESE PLANS, WHERE WE WANNA GO.
AND WE'RE GONNA START THIS, UM, WITH A STAFF PRESENTATION, UH, BY OUR DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, UH, MS. CRYSTAL ONISS, WE GOT A NEW MIC.
I'M CRYSTAL ONISS, DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR.
UM, IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE IN FRONT OF YOU ALL AS SUPERVISORS AND COMMISSIONERS.
JUST WANNA TEE EVERYTHING UP OF AN OVERVIEW OF WHERE WE ARE WITH OUR PLAN AND THE PATH FORWARD THAT WE HAVE.
SO CURRENTLY WE HAVE GONE THROUGH WITH THE CENTERVILLE SMALL AREA PLAN THAT IS PROPOSED.
WE HAVE HAD A COMMUNITY OPEN HOUSE, AND WE'VE ALSO HELD A PUBLIC HEARING AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
WE RECEIVED A GOOD AMOUNT OF PUBLIC FEEDBACK ON THAT.
SO TONIGHT BEFORE YOU, YOU WILL ACTUALLY HAVE, UM, AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW AND CONSIDER THAT WITH THE GOAL OF THE JOINT WORK SESSION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD TO BE ESTABLISHING A PATH FORWARD FOR THE CENTERVILLE SMALL AREA PLAN.
UH, GOING OVER THOSE PRIMARY CONCERNS IN THE DRAFT PLAN AND SOLUTIONS THAT CAN BE DEVELOPED SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE RESPONSIVE, WE'RE PROMOTING WORKABILITY AND CLARITY WITH THESE PLANS.
AND WITH THAT, I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO OUR CONSULTANTS WITH TIMMONS GROUP, UH, MR. CHUCK RAPP.
[00:05:05]
THANK YOU.UH, GOOD EVENING, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, THANKS FOR THIS, THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH YOU ABOUT THESE PLANS AND, AND HOPEFULLY HAVE A GOOD DIALOGUE THIS EVENING AND, AND FIND OUR PATH FORWARD.
SO WITH THAT, UH, WE HAVE A SMALLER POWERPOINT PRESENTATION TO HELP GUIDE SOME OF THAT, THAT CONVERSATION AND TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE COMMENTS AND MAYBE SOME PROPOSED SOLUTIONS TO MOVE FORWARD.
ALRIGHT, SO THIS EVENING WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, SOME OF THE, THE COMMUNITY FEEDBACK FROM PRIOR TO THE, THE OPEN HOUSE AND THE PUBLIC HEARING, AS WELL AS AFTERWARDS.
UH, AND THEN LAY OUT SOME OPTIONS THAT, THAT WORK.
WE'VE, WE'VE DEVELOPED FOR HOW TO ADDRESS SOME OF THAT FEEDBACK AND HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH Y'ALL AND HOPEFULLY FIND THAT PATH.
SO, WANNA START WITH, UH, IF YOU REMEMBER BACK IN WHEN WE STARTED THIS PROCESS WITH Y'ALL BACK IN, UH, LATE FEBRUARY, EARLY MARCH, WE SPENT, UH, SEVERAL WEEKS JUST COMING THROUGH THE EXISTING COMMENTS FROM THE, THE PREVIOUS, UH, EFFORTS FROM YOUR, YOUR PRIOR CONSULTANT, UH, READING THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENT PUBLIC COMMENTS, THE SURVEY RESULTS, UH, WATCHING THE, THE, THE HEARING VIDEOS, THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS, TALKING WITH STAFF AND TRYING TO, TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WERE SOME OF THOSE KEY THEMES THAT WERE EXPRESSED, UH, BY THE COMMUNITY.
SO WE WAS STARTING WITH, UH, THERE'S A HEAVY DESIRE TO REALLY FOCUS ON, UH, HEIGHT, SIZE AND LANDSCAPING ASSOCIATED WITH FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.
SO THE WAY WE TRIED TO ADDRESS THAT IN THE INITIAL DRAFT WAS BY REALLY FOCUSING ON BUILDING FORM, UM, AND SCALE AND THAT RELATIONSHIP TO STREETS, TRYING TO PROMOTE THE PEDESTRIAN, UH, REALM WITH, WITH PEDESTRIAN ORIENTED BUILDINGS, WITH INTERNAL STREETS AND SIDEWALKS, UM, AND THEN RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ZONING, TEXT AMENDMENTS TO HELP SUPPORT THAT, AS WELL AS DEVELOPMENT OF, UH, ADDITIONAL DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT WOULD, THEY WOULD REALLY FOCUS ON SOME OF THAT BUILT FORM.
UH, THERE'S ALSO A DESIRE TO, TO REALLY EMPHASIZE PLACEMAKING, PARTICULARLY IN THE CENTERVILLE AREA, IN PRESERVATION OF COMMUNITY CHARACTERS.
SO WE TRY TO DEVELOP SOME IDEAS FOR LANDSCAPE FEATURES ALONG THE PRIMARY ROADWAYS AS WELL AS ON THE, THE KEY INTERSECTIONS IN THE VILLAGE.
UM, OPPORTUNITIES FOR SMALL BUSINESS WERE ALSO EXPRESSED, SO A STRONG DESIRE TO REALLY PROMOTE THAT.
SO WE TRIED TO REALLY EMPHASIZE THAT BUILDING FORM AND THE SCALE, UH, BY FOCUSING IN THE, IN THE, THE CORE AREA TO, TO HAVE SMALLER BUILDING FORMS OF, OF THREE STORIES IN HEIGHT AND, AND BUILDING OFF OF THAT WHERE, AND PUSHING THE LARGER BUILDINGS OUT TO THE EXTERIOR NEAR THE INTERCHANGE.
UH, WE ALSO, UH, RECOMMENDED DEVELOPING A STRATEGIC BUSINESS PLAN TO REALLY IDENTIFY THOSE TARGET INDUSTRIES AND THOSE BUSINESSES AND FIND WAYS TO INCENTIVIZE THOSE ES THOSE, UH, THERE'S AS STRONG AS OUR EXPRESS FOR PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE RECREATION AND COMMUNITY GATHERING SPACES.
SO, UH, WE DEVELOPED DIFFERENT TYPES OF GREENWAY CORRIDORS, UH, WHERE THEY MIGHT POTENTIALLY BE ALONG SOME OF THE FLOOD PLANS, EXISTING STREAMWAY.
UH, ALSO, UH, IDENTIFIED SOME, SOME AREAS FOR POTENTIAL, UH, RECREATION THROUGH, THROUGH ADDITIONAL PARK SPACE AND GREEN SPACE.
AND THEN ALSO ENCOURAGED THE IDEA OF A PUBLIC PLAZA, UH, IN THE CORE AREA AS WELL, THAT COULD BE KIND OF THAT COMMUNITY CENTER'S FOCUS.
UM, THERE WAS ALSO A STRONG DESIRE TO, TO PROMOTE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND MIXED USE RESIDENTIAL OPTIONS THAT WERE, UH, AT AFFORDABLE SCALE.
SO WE IDENTIFIED A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES AND WHERE THOSE WOULD GO IN THE DIFFERENT DESIGNATIONS, AND WE REALLY TRIED TO RESTRICT THAT MULTIFAMILY TO THE MIXED USE, UH, WITHIN THE MIXED USE DESIGNATIONS AND, AND IDENTIFIED GUIDELINES TO, TO PROMOTE THE RIGHT FORM, THE RIGHT HEIGHT SO THAT THEY WERE CONTEXTUALLY APPROPRIATE, UH, AND FIT THAT THE EXISTING CHARACTER OF SOME OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WERE EITHER EXISTING OR PROPOSED.
UH, UNLESS THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT DENSITY AND GROWTH JUST IN GENERAL AS THIS IS A GROWTH AREA AND WHAT THAT DENSITY MIGHT BE.
AND SO WE TRIED TO IDENTIFY LIMITS, UH, RANGES FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL AND THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL.
AND THEN IN, IN THE MIXED USE AREAS, WE REALLY FOCUSED ON COMPATIBLE BUILDING FORM AND MAXIMUM HEIGHT LIMITATIONS SO THAT THOSE WERE OPEN APPROPRIATE SCALE WITH THOSE MIXED USE OPTIONS TO PROVIDE THAT FLEXIBILITY AS WELL.
AND WE ALSO RECOMMENDED THE DEVELOPMENT OF WHAT'S WHAT'S CALLED A PATTERN BOOK.
A PATTERN BOOK IS REALLY TO, TO TALK ABOUT THE BUILT FORM AND HOW THOSE, THOSE BUILDINGS MIGHT BE THE SIZES, THE RELATIONSHIPS, AND REALLY TAKE THAT SOME OF THOSE IDEAS TO A, A, A MORE DEFINITIVE SCALE.
UM, AND THAT EVEN BE CODIFIED IN IN THE ORDINANCE IN THE FUTURE.
THIS IS, THIS IS HOW WE TRIED TO RELATE THAT.
THIS IS REALLY JUST ON HERE AS A TALKING POINT THAT WE CAN GO BACK TO AS WE DISCUSSED SOME OF THESE THINGS.
BUT IT KIND OF TALKS ABOUT THE INTENT, UH, OF EACH DISTRICT, UH, OR EACH, UH, DISTRICT THAT WE CREATED, UM, THE DIFFERENT USES, THE BUILDING HEIGHTS, UH, RELATIONSHIPS TO STREETS, PARKING, THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE PRESENTED A LOT OF THAT DURING THE, THE PUBLIC HEARING WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND SO HERE'S, UH, HERE'S SOME OF OUR LIST, THE LIST OF A LOT OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WE, THAT WAS SPOKEN ABOUT WHEN WE HAD THIS PUBLIC HEARING WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, TWO WEEKS AGO.
SO, UH, WE CERTAINLY HEARD A DESIRE TO, UH, IN INCREASE THE, THE HEIGHT AND THE MIXED USE TRANSITION AND OR IN INCLUDE, UM, THE AREA SOUTH OF BROAD STREET INTO THE, THE MIXED USE CORE.
UM, WE ALSO HEARD SOME RESIDENTS THAT WERE SOUTH OF THAT MIXED USE TRANSITION AREA, EXPRESS SUPPORT OF THE TWO STORY HEIGHT LIMIT.
I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE THREE STORY CORE EXTENDING ONTO THE SOUTH SIDE.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO BALANCE THAT.
UH, WE ALSO CERTAINLY HEARD A LOT OF CONCERN FROM RESIDENTS OF THE SYCAMORE CREEK AND THE TUCKAHOE BRIDGE, UH, NEIGHBORHOODS ABOUT BUFFERING OR ADDITIONAL TRANSITION ZONES TO ENSURE THAT THERE, THERE WASN'T A STARK CONTRAST WITH A LARGER THREE STORY MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT RIGHT UP AGAINST THEIR, THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, SIMILAR, SIMILAR CONCERNS WERE EXPRESSED FROM THE RESIDENTS OF BELLEVUE GARDENS, UH, DESIRING SOME KIND OF A TRANSITION OR BUFFERING FROM THE MIXED USE AROUND THAT MIXED USE COMMERCIAL
[00:10:01]
AREA AT THE INTERCHANGE AS WELL, AS WELL AS THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROPERTY.UM, JUST BEHIND THEM, THERE WAS SOME CONCERNS EXPRESSED ABOUT LODGING, UH, IN THE MIXED USE CORE AREA AND THE FLEXIBILITY OF THE MIXED USES TO ENSURE THAT THERE WAS SOME, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT LIVE WORK SO THAT IT COULD BE MULTIPLE OPPORTUNITIES, DIDN'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE LIVE WORK, ENSURING THAT WE HAD THOSE OPTIONS IN THERE.
UM, WITHIN THE MIXED USE CORE, THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS EXPRESSED ABOUT THE FUTURE STUDY AREA TO THE SOUTH.
UM, AND SO WE RECOGNIZED THAT MAYBE IT WAS A LITTLE VAGUE THERE AND SOME WORK TO DO ON THAT.
AND THEN THERE'S ALSO CONCERNS ABOUT, UH, GREENWAYS THE LOCATIONS OF THEM AS WELL AS ROAD ALIGNMENTS AND ENSURING THAT THOSE WERE APPROPRIATE AND, AND WITHIN THE, THE, THE DESIGNATION OF THE BOUNDARY OF THE SMALL AREA PLAN AS WELL.
SO WITH THAT, WE SPENT SOME TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW COULD WE ADDRESS THOSE.
UM, AND SO FIRST AND FOREMOST, ONE OF THE, THE ONES WE WANTED TO RECOMMEND WAS GO AHEAD AND RECOMMEND EXTENDING THAT, THAT MIXED USE CORE TO THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF BROAD STREET, UM, TO, TO, TO ACKNOWLEDGE THOSE CONCERNS THAT WERE EXPRESSED AND CREATE THAT, THAT, THAT POTENTIAL FOR, FOR THE CORE TO EXTEND ON BOTH SIDES.
UM, AND THEN AS A WAY TO ADDRESS A LOT OF THE CONCERNS ABOUT TRANSITIONS, WE, WE, WE WOULD RECOMMEND DEVELOPING A TRANSITION PAGE, UH, OR TWO WITHIN THIS PLAN.
THEY WOULD TALK ABOUT TRANSITION BETWEEN MIXED USE AREAS, SO MIXED USE CORE AND THE MIXED USE COMMERCIAL, UH, AS WELL AS THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT LAND WHEN IT ABUTS RESIDENTIAL, UH, AND PROVIDING AS A SIMILAR APPROACH THAT WE DID THROUGHOUT THESE PLANS, UH, OF PROVIDING, UH, A VARIETY OF OPTIONS THAT COULD BE CHOSEN SINGLY OR COMBINED SOME COMBINATION OF, UH, WHICH WOULD, THE FIRST OF WHICH WOULD BE HEIGHT LIMITATIONS OR WHAT WE CALL STEP BACKS.
SO YOU TYPICALLY WOULD IDENTIFY A PARTICULAR DISTANCE FROM THAT RESIDENTIAL CATEGORY WHERE BUILDINGS NEED TO STEP DOWN SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A LARGER BUILDING UP AGAINST A RESIDENTIAL, UH, DEVELOPMENT.
UH, ANOTHER OPTION IS INCREASED SETBACKS, JUST ENSURING THAT THAT MIXED USE ZONE HAS, HAS LARGER SETBACKS, UH, WHEN IT DOES A BUT RESIDENTIAL TO AGAIN, REDUCE THAT IMPACT.
UH, AND THE THIRD ONE IS ADDITIONAL BUFFERS.
THAT COULD BE LANDSCAPING, IT COULD BE NATURAL BUFFERS, IT COULD BE, UH, WALLS, A VARIETY OF THINGS, UH, THAT COULD ALSO BE USED, UH, AGAIN TO HOPEFULLY LESSEN THE IMPACTS THAT IT MIGHT HAVE ON A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT ADJACENT TO IT.
UM, THERE'S ALSO SOME, SOME, AS I MENTIONED, SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MIXED USE CORE.
SO, UH, WE WANTED TO, TO PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE THAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND FOR LODGING, UH, AND REALLY REFERENCE APPROPRIATELY SCALED LODGING.
SO WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT LODGING IN THAT MIXED USE CORE, THE IDEA WAS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU REMEMBER, WE RECOMMENDED UP TO THREE STORIES IN THAT MIXED USE CORE.
SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A FIVE STORY BIG HOTEL, SIX STORY HOTEL.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING APPROPRIATELY SCALED THAT INTEGRATES INTO THAT EXISTING BUILDING FORM.
AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT LODGING IN THAT ASPECT, IT'S MORE OF THE, THE BOUTIQUE HOTEL TYPE APPROACH.
SOMETHING SMALLER THAT REALLY FITS, UH, FIX, FIX, UH, FITS INTO THAT MIXED USE WALKABLE ENVIRONMENT.
UM, AND THEN AS WELL AS IT REALLY REITERATE THIS IDEA OF ANY COMBINATION OF THOSE PRIMARY USES.
SO IT, IT MIGHT BE, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE, UH, RESIDENTIAL ABOVE OFFICE OR SOMETHING, OR RETAIL.
IT COULD BE OFFICE ABOVE RETAIL, IT COULD BE ANY MIXTURE OF THOSE DIFFERENT USES THAT YOU HAVE LISTED AS PRIMARY WITHIN THAT MIXED USE CORE TO REALLY CREATE THAT FLEXIBILITY.
UH, DEPENDING ON MARKETING CONDITIONS AND WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED, UH, WE WOULD ALSO RECOMMEND WE SOME ADDITIONAL, UH, INCORPORATING SOME ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE TO, TO CLEARLY DEFINE THAT FUTURE STUDY AREA TO THE SOUTH OF, OF THIS, UM, SO THAT, THAT IT REALLY HAS A BOUNDARY, UM, AND, AND IT DEFINES EXACTLY WHAT THAT FUTURE STUDY IS SO THAT YOU'LL HAVE THE ROADMAP TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, WITH THAT IN A FUTURE TIME.
UM, AND THE LAST, UH, WITH GREENWAYS AND ROADS REALLY, REALLY ENSURE THAT THEY ARE, UH, CONFINED TO THIS SMALLER AREA PLAN BOUNDARY AND, AND REALLY NOTE THAT THEY'RE CONCEPTUAL ALIGNMENTS ONLY AT THIS, AT THIS STAGE.
AND, YOU KNOW, MORE DETAILED ALIGNMENT WOULD'VE TO COME AT A FUTURE TIME AS YOU WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH ANY OF THOSE PROJECTS AND START TO VET SOME OF THOSE.
SO THAT WAS REALLY WHAT WE, WHAT WE PREPARED AS, AS A WAY TO HOPELY GUIDE SOME DISCUSSION.
AND, UH, HOPEFULLY THAT WILL, UH, WE'RE HOPING THAT THAT ADDRESSES THE, THE BALANCE OF THE DIFFERENT COMMENTS THAT WE'VE HEARD ADDRESSES SOME OF THE CONCERNS ABOUT, UH, HEIGHTS AND TRANSITIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT AREAS, UM, TO, TO MAKE THIS A MORE COMPATIBLE PLAN.
SO WITH THAT, I'LL CERTAINLY OPEN UP TO QUESTIONS AND, UH, START WHEREVER YOU WOULD LIKE.
MS. S, DID YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON MOVING FORWARD, IF I LOOK AT ITEM TWO C, IT'S ADJUSTMENTS TO CONSIDER? OR DID YOU, DID YOU WANT US TO GO INTO DISCUSSION NOW? I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE AGENDA.
SO AGAIN, UM, WE, YOU ALL HAVE BEFORE YOU ARE, I LOVE THIS CLICKER.
UM, WE HAVE LAID OUT, UM, IN AN EFFORT TO TRY TO MEET WHAT WE HEARD AS COMMON THEMES FROM THE OPEN HOUSE AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC HEARING, UM, THE COMMON THEMES IN TRYING TO WORK TO MEET THOSE HALFWAY, UM, OR AS BEST TO OUR ABILITY AS WE CAN WITH BALANCING THE IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAD A LOT OF COMMENTS THAT SOMEWHERE OVER HERE, SOMEWHERE OVER HERE TRYING TO MEET THINGS IN THE MIDDLE MM-HMM.
UM, I THINK BASED ON THAT, UM, WE'RE AT A GOOD POINT TO TRY AND HAVE SOME DISCUSSION.
I WILL SAY WE HAVE THE CURRENT LAND USE MAP UP ON THIS SCREEN, AND THEN THIS IS THE PROPOSED OPTIONS THAT CAN BE USED TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS ON THE SCREEN BEHIND YOU.
SO, UM, AS A POINT OF REFERENCE
[00:15:01]
FOR YOU ALL TO DISCUSS, AND WE'RE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND, AND WHAT, WHAT, FROM STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE, WHAT IS STAFF HOPING TO WALK AWAY THIS EVENING WITH? AT THIS POINT? WE ARE HOPING TO GET VERY CLEAR DIRECTION ON THE PATH FORWARD AS FAR AS ANY CHANGES OR OUTSTANDING CONCERNS THAT COMMISSIONERS OR BOARD MEMBERS HAVE WITH THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ADJUSTED IN THESE PLANS FOR WORKABILITY CLARITY AND OR RESPONSIVENESS.AND IF, IF WE GET TO THAT POINT, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE FOR THIS PROCESS? UM, IF WE'RE ABLE TO OBTAIN CLEAR DIRECTION TONIGHT AND THERE'S CONSENSUS, UM, THERE ARE SEVERAL OPTIONS THAT COULD OCCUR.
UM, ONE, NAMELY BEING SINCE THERE WAS A DEFERRAL AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR THE CENTERVILLE SMALL AREA PLAN, WE COULD PROCEED.
UM, AND, UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO PROCEED BACK TO A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE CENTERVILLE SMALL AREA PLAN.
OBVIOUSLY MAKING CHANGES THAT GET DISCUSSED THIS EVENING, GOING THROUGH THE PUBLIC NOTICE PROCESS, POSTING AGAIN, UM, ADJUSTED, AND THEN, UH, REVISED PLANS AND THEN TAKING THAT TO THE BOARD.
SO, SO FROM HERE, SO WE HAVE THE WORK SESSION TONIGHT, THERE'S GONNA BE OPEN DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE TWO BOARDS.
UM, WE WILL PROVIDE OUR RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEN THE CITIZENS WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY BOTH AT THE, THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING IF THIS IS SCHEDULED FOR THAT, IF WE ARRIVE AT THAT CONSENSUS AND THERE'LL BE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING.
SO THERE'LL BE TWO MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS.
UM, MR. SPOONER, WHAT I WILL SAY IS TONIGHT WOULD BE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS A CONSENSUS ON A DATE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEN THE JULY 6TH WORK SESSION COULD OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCE A DATE TO MOVE FORWARD SO THAT WE'RE CONTINUALLY REITERATING IT AND ALLOWING THE COMMUNITY TO KNOW WHEN THE NEXT PUBLIC HEARING IS COMING AND THE NEXT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COMMENT PERIOD.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS.
WE JUST WANNA GET US ALL KIND OF ALIGNED OF ALREADY.
THIS IS, THIS IS KIND OF UNIQUE.
UM, UH, I THINK WE'VE DONE THIS ONCE BEFORE SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD, SO THIS SHOULD BE AN INTERESTING TIME.
SO BOS, UM, WOULD, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO PROCEED? YOU WANT TO YES.
ARE THEY SAYING NOW THAT THE, UH, THEY PROPOSING HAVING THE SAME USE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF BROAD STREET AS THEY ARE IN THE NORTH NOW? WE, WE ARE.
SO WE WOULD SAY JUST BASICALLY ELIMINATE THE MIXED USE TRANSITION AND JUST LABEL THAT AREA AS MIXED USE CORE.
AND HOPEFULLY WITH THE ADDITION OF THE, THE TRANSITION OPTIONS.
UH, WHEN IT ABUTS RESIDENTIAL, IT, UH, ADDRESSES THE CONCERNS ABOUT EXTENDING THAT, UH, FOR THE BENEFIT OF, OF THE MIXED USE CORE AS WELL AS THE CONCERN ABOUT THE IMPACTS TO THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
THERE WAS A STICKING POINT AT THE PUBLIC HEARING MM-HMM.
MR. MYERS, AND IF I MAY, I KNOW, UM, IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION, PUBLIC HEARING YOU ALL AS A BODY OF COMMISSIONERS HAD QUESTIONS AS TO WHY NORTH AND SOUTH OF BROAD WERE DIFFERENTIATED.
THIS WOULD ALLEVIATE THAT AND CREATE SOME CONTINUITY WITH IT ALL BEING ONE, UM, CATEGORY.
UM, MR. EZ, ANOTHER PIECE OF THIS IS, UM, WE HAD A REALLY GOOD CONVERSATION ON MONDAY OR, UM, YOU AND I ACTUALLY AROUND WHAT DOES THIS ACTUALLY MEAN ONCE THIS PLAN IS ADOPTED? DOES THIS MEAN, YOU KNOW, TWO MONTHS FROM NOW WE'RE GONNA CHANGE EVERY LAND USE AND ALL THE ORDINANCES OR HOW, HOW, HOW'S THAT GONNA WORK? WHAT SHOULD THE PUBLIC KNOW OF THE ADAPTION OF THIS PLAN? IT GETS PUT INTO AS AN ADDENDUM TO THE, UM, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THEN HOW, HOW DO WE GO FORWARD FROM THERE? UM, GOING FORWARD FROM HERE, WE CAN, UM, DEAL WITH THE APPLICATIONS AS THEY COME IN THROUGH A REZONING PROCESS AND THE PLAN OF DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
UM, AND WE CAN ALSO BEGIN TO WORK ON ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS, UM, IN COMING MONTHS.
I MEAN, AND THAT IS A VERY LENGTHY PROCESS AS WELL AS UPDATING DESIGN REVIEW, UM, OR DESIGN GUIDELINES.
AND THAT IS ACTUALLY A PRIORITY THAT'S MENTIONED UNDER THE LAND USE.
IN THE VERY BACK PAGE OF THESE PLANS, THE THREE PRIORITIES FOR LIEN USE, OUR DESIGN STANDARDS IS ACTUALLY PRIORITY ONE.
PRIORITY TWO IS ZONING UPDATES, AND PRIORITY THREE IS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
SO IT'S NOT GONNA BE LIKE, IT IS NOT AN OVERNIGHT, NO.
SO IT'D BE A CASE BY CASE, PARCEL BY PARCEL.
THIS IS HOW, THIS IS HOW WE ARE HOPING THAT THIS WILL BE DEVELOPED, BUT IT MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE DEVELOPED THAT WAY BASED ON A LOT OF THINGS.
WHAT THE DEVELOPER BRINGS THE, THE MAKEUP OF THIS BOARD CITIZEN INPUT OBVIOUSLY.
UH, THE INTENT IS TO CREATE AND FOSTER SOME FLEXIBILITY.
SO WE HAVE GOOD PROJECTS BROUGHT TO US WHERE WE CAN ALSO START A GOOD CONVERSATION WITH DEVELOPERS, UM, FOR COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AS WELL AS ANY PROJECT THAT COMES FORWARD.
THERE'S PUBLIC HEARINGS, IT GOES TO PLANNING COMMISSION, IT GOES TO THE BOARD AND WE DO NOTICES.
WE PUT THE YELLOW SIGNS UP THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE COMMUNITY MEETINGS AS WELL.
[00:20:06]
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY RE UH, LOTS OR PIECES OF PROPERTY WITHIN THIS AREA CURRENTLY ZONED CONFLICT WITH THIS PLAN? OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I CANNOT GIVE YOU AN EXACT NUMBER.I WOULD BE HESITANT TO CREATE A GENERALIZATION AND CONFLICT MYSELF.
YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW MANY, NOT A LAND KNOWN AS BEING AFFECTED BY THIS AT THIS POINT? NO.
I WILL SAY THAT THE CENTERVILLE SMALL AREA PLAN COVERS 3.5 SQUARE MILES IN OF ITSELF.
AND USUALLY IS A LITTLE OVER 200 SQUARE MILES.
THE OTHER QUESTION WAS, I'D GOTTEN SOME COMMENTS FROM THE PEOPLE THAT, UH, THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE OVER IN, UM, UH, WEST OF MANNEQUIN ROAD REGARDING THE ORIGINAL PLAN FOR THAT AREA.
UH, HAS THAT BEEN ADDRESSED IN THE NEW RISE SUGGESTIONS? THE SYCAMORE CREEK RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD? CORRECT.
WE, WE ARE WORKING TO, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, UM, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WHERE WE HAVE DIFFERENTIATING LAND USES THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN SOME MORE PROTECTIONAL ELEMENTS FOR TRANSITION AREAS.
UM, CUZ IT'S NOT JUST THE SYCAMORE CREEK AREA, YOU HAVE POCKETS OF RESIDENTIAL OR SMALLER SCALE COMMERCIAL THAT'S NEAR YOUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE GRAY.
HOW DO WE CREATE SOME TRANSITIONAL ELEMENTS AND HAVE THINGS THAT WILL NATURALLY TAPER WHERE THERE'S A DIFFERENT LAND USE AND THAT WILL COME IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, BUT WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO, UM, BE ADDING PAGES THAT TALK ABOUT TRANSITIONAL ELEMENTS AS WELL AS HAVING IT VISUALLY REPRESENTED ON A LAND USE MAP LIKE YOU SEE HERE, SIMILAR TO, SO IT'LL BE CALLED OUT RATHER THAN IMPLIED FOR CLARITY AND BOARDS.
JUST A POINT OF, OR SINCE THIS IS A WORK SESSION, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE CHAIRS TO RECOGNIZE YOU, YOU JUST PUT ON YOUR MICS AND GIVE US YOUR GREAT THOUGHTS.
THE TRANSITION AREA IS GOING TO BE AT THE, UH, LANDOWNER'S EX, THE CURRENT LANDOWNER'S EXPENSE, WHOEVER IS, IS APPLYING FOR THE REZONING IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED TO BEAR THE EXPENSE OF THIS TRANSITION.
IT WOULD FUNCTION A SIMILAR, JUST AS IN A SIMILAR FASHION AS WHEN YOU COME IN FOR A REZONING AND THERE'S EXISTING SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, UM, OR HOW WE HAVE BUFFER REQUIREMENTS FOR CERTAIN RESIDENTIAL, UM, DEVELOPMENTS.
IT WOULD FUNCTION IN THAT SIMILAR WAY.
SO IT WOULD BE ON THE PROJECT AS IT COMES FORWARD, NOT AN EXISTING PROPERTY.
CAN, CAN YOU ELABOR IT'S ELABORATE AS TO HOW LARGE THAT TRANSITION AREA MIGHT BE? IT WOULD BE DEPENDENT ON THE PROJECT.
SO YOU MIGHT SEE SOMEWHERE THERE'S A THOUSAND, UH, FEET OF TRANSITION AREA.
I'M JUST GIVING AN EXAMPLE WHERE IT MIGHT BE A HUNDRED OR 50.
IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE DIFFERENT TYPE OF USE.
UM, AND ALSO TALKING ABOUT, SO FOR INSTANCE, WITH THE SOUTH OF BROAD PIECE HERE WHERE WE KNOW WE HAVE, UM, A FAIR AMOUNT OF EXISTING RESIDENTIAL AND BEING MINDFUL OF THAT, YOU KNOW, WE MAY SEE WHEN A PROJECT COMES FORWARD THAT THERE'S REALLY ONLY THAT SLIVER THAT IMMEDIATELY ABUTS, UM, WEST BROAD STREET ROAD THAT WOULD EVEN HAVE THREE STORIES, HEIGHT AND ANY SIGNIFICANT DENSITY.
AND THEN IT IMMEDIATELY STARTS TO TAPER WHERE YOU'RE REALLY GETTING TO, YOU KNOW, SINGLE FAMILY AND VERY SMALL SETUPS BECAUSE IT'S BEING MINDFUL OF THAT AND THAT THAT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, JUST TRANSITIONING EVEN WITH STRUCTURE SIZE AS WELL.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BUILT FORM.
IF I COULD DO, UH, COMMISSIONER DUKE, UH, WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS WE WOULD, WE WOULD IDENTIFY THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF TRANSITIONS AND WHAT THOSE MIGHT BE TO PROVIDE KIND OF THAT, THAT FRAMEWORK FOR HOW THEY WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED.
UM, BUT I WOULD RECOMMEND THE SPECIFIC DISTANCES OR NUMBER OF PLANTS OR HEIGHTS OF THINGS, UH, STEP XS THAT SHOULD REALLY BE CODIFIED IN YOUR ZONING ORDINANCE.
UH, BUT IT WOULD AT LEAST PROVIDE THIS MAP SO THAT IF A REZONING DID COME FORWARD, UH, Y'ALL AS A BOARD AND AS A COMMISSION COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU ARE ADJACENT TO A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
THE PLAN THAT WAS ADOPTED RECOMMENDS A TRANSITION.
WE'VE IDENTIFIED SOME OPTIONS.
SO THEY, THE APPLICANT SHOULD, SHOULD IDENTIFY ONE OF THOSE, OR A MIXTURE OF THEM OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT AT LEAST SATISFIES THE INTENT OF WHAT THE PLAN INTENDED TO DO THERE.
UH, THERE ARE PROBABLY PROBABLY FIVE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT AS ISSUES THREE COME TO THE TOP OF MY LIST AND THAT IS BOUNDARIES, THE SOUTHERN PART OF, UH, TWO 50 AND, UH, DENSITY.
SO, AND PROBABLY A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE COMMENTS ON ALL OF THESE.
I'M IN GENERAL IN FAVOR OF THIS PLAN, OF A PLAN.
I THINK WE'RE VERY CLOSE, BUT ALWAYS IT'S THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS.
SO THE ORIGINAL CENTERVILLE AREA HAD MANNEQUIN ROAD AS THE WESTERN
[00:25:01]
BOUNDARY.WE'VE NOW MOVED THE WESTERN BOUNDARY WEST.
SO WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS? UH, I'M NOT SEEING ANY PROS, BUT MAYBE YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT THEY ARE.
WHY ARE WE DOING THAT? UM, MS. LASETTE, TO CLARIFY THE ACTUAL BOUNDARY IN OF THE SMALL, UM, AREA PLAN FOR CENTERVILLE HAS NOT CHANGED.
UH, PART OF THAT IS BASED ON, UH, LOOKING AT APPROVED PLANS OF DEVELOPMENT THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED.
I BELIEVE THERE IS A, UM, RIGHT OVER HERE IN THIS END HERE, THERE IS A SHOPPING CENTER THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED THROUGH THE P O D PROCESS RIGHT HERE.
THERE IS MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDINGS THROUGH HERE.
AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT TRYING TO CREATE SOME CONTINUITY OF LAND USES AND NOT HAVING SOMETHING IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT, CONFLICTING, THAT'S PART OF THE REASON.
SO WHY, OKAY, SO THERE, UH, THOSE ZONING USES HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED, YOU'VE SAID? YES, MA'AM.
SO THEN WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BE IN THE VILLAGE? WHY CAN'T WE TRANSITION RIGHT PAST THAT PROPERTY? UM, BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT, I'LL LET YOU TAKE THAT.
WELL, SO WE WOULD TYPICALLY TRY TO, TO TO PLACE LAND USE IN BROAD AREAS.
UH, THE DO MATCH EITHER WHAT'S EXISTING OR WHAT'S PLANNED BASED ON APPROVED MM-HMM.
UH, SO THAT AS THAT AREA CONTINUES TO DEVELOP, EVERYTHING IS, IS COMPATIBLE WITH ONE ANOTHER.
UM, AND SO SINCE, UH, IN OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH STAFF REALIZING THAT THERE WERE SOME APPROVED PLANS THAT DID FIT MORE OF THE FORM OF THE VILLAGE CORE, UH, THAT'S WHY WE DECIDED TO DESIGNATE IT WITHIN IT.
AND THAT'S SIMILAR, SIMILAR TO, UM, AS I MENTIONED, THE, SOME OF THE OTHER AREAS, THE, THE BELLEVUE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR INSTANCE, WE WOULDN'T WANNA PUT THAT, THAT'S WHY WE, WE, WE HAVE THAT DESIGNATED AS THE NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL VERSUS IN INCLUDING THEM AND SOME OTHER AREAS, UH, THE MIXED USE AREA.
BUT DOES THAT NOT, UM, LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF THE TRANSITION AREA BY WHAT YOU'VE DONE HERE? UM, WELL THE TRANSITION WOULD BE ON THE, ON THE PROPERTY OF THE APPLICANT THAT'S BRINGING A DEVELOPMENT FOR YOU.
SO WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY DESIGNATING LARGE SWATHS OF TRANSITION, WE'RE JUST SAYING THESE PROPERTIES WOULD NEED TO BE TRANSITIONED.
SO THE AREA THAT YOU HAVE INCLUDED IN THE CORE OF THE VILLAGE, THAT INCLUDES WEST OF MANNEQUIN, RIGHT.
AND THAT'S THE ZONE, THAT'S THE AREA WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT'S ALREADY ZONED.
SO THE CORE VILLAGE IS, INCLUDES MORE THAN JUST WHAT HAS BEEN REZONED, IS THAT CORRECT? I WILL DEFER TO OUR PLANNING STAFF FOR CLARITY REASON, AND I LOOKED AT THE MAP AFTER WE TALKED TODAY.
MS. LALE, UM, THE, THE PROPERTY THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO WEST OF, UM, MANNEQUIN ROAD AND AROUND BEHIND SATELLITES HAS BEEN APPROVED SEVERAL YEARS AGO FOR A, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A SHOPPING CENTER TYPE OF, UH, AREA IS CURRENTLY VACANT.
UH, WE DO KNOW THAT THE, UM, THE PROPERTY OWNER IS INTERESTED AND HAS COME UP WITH A NUMBER OF IDEAS FOR THAT PROPERTY AND HAS ALMOST COME FORWARD WITH A, A COUPLE DIFFERENT, UM, ZONING CASES.
THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY BY INCLUDING THIS IN THERE AND HAVING IN THE LANGUAGE, IN THE TRANSITION AREA THAT WILL BE PART OF THE, THIS PLAN.
THIS ACTUALLY FURTHER STRENGTHEN, STRENGTHENS THE BUFFER AREA THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR, UH, THE, THE RESIDENTIAL.
PROBABLY NOT ASKING MY QUESTION PROPERLY, SO, OKAY.
UM, SO THE CORE VILLAGE, YES MA'AM.
BROAD AND, UM, MANNEQUIN WEST ON THE WEST SIDE OF MANNEQUIN MM-HMM.
WHY WOULD THAT BE? WELL, AGAIN, WE LOOKED AT IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY.
WE KNOW THAT THERE'S INTEREST IN THAT PROPERTY AND PUTTING IT IN THE CORE AND HAVING IT GO THROUGH, UM, I GUESS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A RIGOROUS LOOK AT, AS OPPOSED TO IT JUST BEING A, A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY DOES ADD, UM, AGAIN, VALUE TO IT BEING A LARGE PROPERTY AND HAVING IT DEVELOPED IN A, IN A, IN A MANNER THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE WILL REQUIRE WITHIN THAT CORE DISTRICT SOMETHING PLANNED, SOMETHING THAT'S A GOOD PROJECT, UM, WHICH WILL BE REQUIRED ON YOUR END.
BUT AGAIN, UM, THAT TRANSITION AREA THAT IS IDENTIFIED THERE IN ORIGIN POTENTIALLY WILL, YOU KNOW, IF THIS IS THE DIRECTION THAT THE BOARD WANTS TO GO BE OUTLINED IN MORE DETAIL IN THE PLAN THAT WOULD THEN BE BUILT IN, WHICH WOULD, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY ADD ADDITIONAL PROTECTION TO THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO I, I'M SORRY I IT'S GOTTA GET IT STRAIGHT.
[00:30:01]
BEYOND THAT CORE AREA, THE SATELLITE PROPERTY IS RESIDENTIAL? YES MA'AM.SO THIS PLAN LESSENS THE RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE IT IS A LARGER PIECE THAN THE SATELLITE PROPERTY.
SO WHERE MY, UM, WHERE MY POINTER IS CURRENTLY, THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IT IS CURRENTLY ZONED COMMERCIAL ALREADY AND IS, UM, IDENTIFIED AS COMMERCIAL IN THE CURRENT, UM, LAND USE PLAN.
SO IT IS ACTUALLY JUST KIND OF JUST ENGULFING THAT AND INCLUDING THAT IN THE, UH, CORE VILLAGE, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT THE, UH, IDENTIFYING, UM, TRANSITION AREAS COULD BE POTENTIALLY MISUNDERSTOOD TO THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE MORE SCARY TO, YOU KNOW, MORE IMPACTFUL TO, UH, THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
BUT IF THIS APPLICANT OR THE PROPERTY OWNER WERE TO COME FORWARD, IT GIVES AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY NOT ACCEPT SOMETHING THAT WOULD NOT PROVIDE THAT ADEQUATE BUFFERING OR TRANSITION RATHER.
SO IS THERE ANY PROPERTY ZONE COMMERCIAL MM-HMM.
SO IS THERE COMMERCIAL OPPORTUNITIES THERE OR IS THAT, IT LOOKS LIKE FROM THIS MAP IT'S RESIDENTIAL.
AND, AND YES, IT IS CURRENTLY ALL OF THAT IS CURRENTLY ZONED AND I IDENTIFIED ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AS RESIDENTIAL, UM, WITH, AND THERE IS SOME, UH, COMMERCIAL SOUTH OF, UH, BROAD STREET ROAD, THE AREA WHERE THE CHIROPRACTOR IS LOCATED OVER HERE? NO, I'M JUST TALKING NORTH OF, NORTH OF YEP.
ALL OF THAT IS CURRENTLY ZONED, UH, AGRICULTURAL AND UM, OR RESIDENTIAL AND IDENTIFIED IN THE CURRENT COMP PLAN FOR RESIDENTIAL.
SO THERE IS NO COMMERCIAL NORTH ABROAD WEST OF, OTHER THAN THAT ONE PIECE WEST OF MANNEQUIN AND NORTH ABROAD.
SO THERE IS ONE, ONE LESS PIECE.
YEAH, THERE'S ONE TRIANGULAR PIECE.
I THINK IT'S, I'M TRYING TO THINK.
AND THE SAME PROPERTY OWNER DOES OWN, UM, THE MANNEQUIN CROSSING THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE BOARD SEVERAL YEARS AGO DOES OWN THAT SAME PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT IS ACTUALLY ZONED RESIDENTIAL, BUT IS RECOMMENDED BY THE CURRENT COMP PLAN AS COMMERCIAL.
AND SO THAT IS IN THIS PLAN THAT IS IN THE COURT? YES, MA'AM.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY'S GOT ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
SOUTH ABROAD, I MEAN, YES, SOUTH ABROAD IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A MUSICAL OR SOMETHING.
RIGHT? UH, SO THE ORIGINAL, WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHICH, WHETHER WE'RE ORIGINAL, ADOPTED, REVISED PLAN DID, DID WAS DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT SOUTH ABROAD.
SO THIS IS NOW MORE INTENSE USAGE SOUTH ABROAD, CORRECT? WELL THE, THE CHANGES THAT WE ARE RECOMMENDING WOULD YES BE TO, TO TAKE WHAT WE, WHAT YOU CURRENTLY SEE ON THE MAP IN THAT I GUESS ORANGE COLOR, THE MID IN BETWEEN ORANGE COLOR, WHICH WAS THE MIXED USE TRANSITION AND REPLACE IT WITH THE MIXED USE CORE DESIGNATION.
SO IT MATCHES WHAT IS NORTH OF BROAD.
SO NORTH AND SOUTH OF BROAD, UH, WOULD BE ONE COLOR THERE.
THAT MAKE SENSE? UM, IT DOES, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S SORT OF TWO DIFFERENT COLORS.
WE WERE TRYING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT NEED TO STEP DOWN, BUT I THINK WITH THE TRANSITION ZONES YOU COULD KEEP IT AS CORE AND IT WOULD STILL ALLOW THE OPPORTUNITY.
SO IT'S NOT, THERE'S NO STEP DOWN.
NOT UNTIL, BUT UNLESS IT'S EFFORT IN THE TRANSITION ZONES, WE WOULD BE RECOMMENDING THAT IF IT ABUTS RESIDENTIAL, YOU WOULD THINK ABOUT A TRANSITION ZONE, UH, WHEN IT COMES FORWARD.
BUT, UH, IT'S, THERE'S NO LONGER A MIXED USE TRANSITION DESIGNATION IS WHAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING.
AND SO I'M KIND OF INDIFFERENT ABOUT THAT.
UH, WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS IN DOING WHAT'S BEEN DONE HERE? UM, WHAT IT, WHAT IT WOULD DO IS ALLOW, IF YOU HAD FRONTAGE ON, IF YOU'RE IN THE SOUTH AREA OF, OF THAT AND YOU HAD FRONTAGE ON BROAD, YOU COULD HAVE A THREE STORY BUILDING, UM, AND THEN YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD CONSIDER MAYBE STEPPING DOWN AS YOU GET DOWN TO THE RESIDENTIAL JUST SOUTH OF YOU OR INCREASING YOUR BUFFER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO IT WOULD, THE PROS WOULD BE FROM, FROM A DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, UH, THAT PROPERTY OWNER WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO GET TO THE SAME HEIGHT AS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF BROAD.
UM, AND HOPEFULLY WITH THE TRANSITION ZONE IT ADDRESSES SOME OF THE CONCERNS OF THE RESIDENTS THAT WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT HEIGHT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
AND THIS AND THAT, IF WE AGREED TO THIS RECOMMENDED CHANGE YEP.
THIS WOULD PUT US MORE IN LINE WITH THE, OUR CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, I BELIEVE SO THAT YEAH, IT WAS ALWAYS SHOWING THAT THAT CORE IN BOTH SIDES.
AND I THINK THE ISSUE THERE IS THE THREE STORY NEXT TO, YOU KNOW, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE HOPEFULLY THE TRANS, THE IDEA OF ENSURING THAT, UH, WHEN IT, THE SIDE DID A BUT RESIDENTIAL ON THE SOUTH THERE WOULD HAVE SOME FORM OF A TRANSITION.
AND AGAIN, THAT GOES BACK TO THE FACT THAT WE'RE INTENDING AND PROPOSING, UM, AS I HAD OUTLINED FOR YOU IN SOME OF OUR DISCUSSIONS, HAVING, UM, A WHOLE SECTION ADDED TO THE PLAN THAT
[00:35:01]
TALKS ABOUT TRANSITIONAL ELEMENTS, WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE? WHAT ARE TYPES, SO THAT THEN WHEN A PRODUCT PROJECT DOES COME FORWARD, RIGHT, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY, WELL THIS IS NEAR RESIDENTIAL, THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN DO IN THE FRONT.YOU'RE NEED, YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO INCORPORATE SOME TRANSITION TAPERING AND OTHER ELEMENTS.
AND ARE YOU SAYING THAT WOULD HAPPEN NOW? YEAH, IT COULD START HAPPENING NOW WITH THE APPLICATION PROCESS BECAUSE AGAIN, IF THIS IS ADOPTED, IT BECOMES AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND ONE OF THE CHECK BOXES THAT YOU WILL, I'M SORRY BEFORE YOU GO TOO FAR, ARE, BUT, SO MY QUESTION IS, ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THAT APPENDIX THAT THO THOSE POT POTENTIAL TRANSITIONS, UM, IN IT.
I GUESS MR. LUMS POINT OUT, IT'S ACTUALLY THE SECOND BULLET ON THE SCREEN.
UH, THAT, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS TO, UM, HAVE, UM, THE TRANSITIONAL AREAS IN TRANSITIONAL ELEMENTS ACTUALLY LISTED AS A SECTION WITHIN THE PLAN.
SO THAT WOULD BE IN THAT, SORRY, THAT WOULD BE A CHANGE WE'RE RECOMMENDING AS AN ADJUSTMENT AND, BUT WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO IS, AND THE CITIZENS WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO SEE THAT FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.
IF WE INCLUDE THESE ARE WE ARE, ARE, IS THE PUBLIC GONNA BE ABLE TO COMMENT ON THAT DURING THE, UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION? I WILL SAY THAT EVERYTHING WE HAVE WORKED TO LAY OUT HERE BEFORE YOU ALL TONIGHT.
WE, IF WE HAVE CONSENSUS OR DIRECT CLEAR DIRECTION ON IT THIS EVENING, WE DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO WORK TO INCLUDE IT FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO HAVE A MEETING SOMETIME LATE JULY, UM, OR EARLY AUGUST, WHATEVER IS THE, UH, QUORUM, UH, INABILITY OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
BUT YES, I MEAN WE COULD HAVE SOMETHING READY THEN AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE IT OUT IN ADVANCE OF THE MEETING SO THAT IT IS AVAILABLE FOR TRANSPARENCY PURPOSES.
SO AGAIN, THESE, UM, OPTIONS, THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE ARE PREPARED TO ACT ON AND ADDRESS.
DRILLING DOWN A LITTLE BIT, MS. LASETTE ASKED, YOU KNOW, THE PROS AND CONS AND AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON WHICH CORRECT, WHICH SIDE YOU'RE ON.
THAT'S, WELL THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING.
BUT, BUT, AND I, AND I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, THE OWNERS, PROPERTY OWNERS ON THE SOUTH SIDE, WERE, WERE SOME OF THE IMPETUS FOR, FOR SOME CHANGES, BUT OBVIOUSLY BEFORE THERE WAS A MIXED USE TRANSITION AND THAT SEEMS TO ME THAT WAS THERE, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT WAS THERE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL AS TO THE SOUTH OF, OF THAT ZONE.
SO IT, I'M JUST REALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REALLY BEING CHANGED HERE.
UH, WHEN WE DRILL IT DOWN, IT WAS A MIXED USE TRANSITION.
NOW YOU'RE CALLING IT A MIXED USE CORE, BUT YOU'RE ADDING TRANSITION OPTIONS AND ELEMENTS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO IF YOU, IF YOU THINK OF, SO, SO IS BUILDING HEIGHT, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS ADDRESS BUILDING HEIGHT? YES SIR.
SO ORIGINALLY THE MIXED USE TRANSITION HAD A LIMIT OF ONE TO TWO STORIES.
THIS WOULD ALLOW ONE TO THREE STORIES, BUT IT WOULD BE BASED ON A PER APPLICATION.
SO WHAT OTHER EL ARE WE LOSING ANY ELEMENTS, ANY OTHER ELEMENTS IN THE MIXED USE TRANSITION ZONE? ARE YOU JUST REALLY PULLING THEM OUT AND DROPPING THEM INTO A TRANSITION? NO, IT WAS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME CATEGORY, JUST WITH A SLIGHT, JUST WITH ONE LESS STORY TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT RESIDENTIAL BEHIND.
IT'S A LOT OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WAS DOCUMENTED FROM THE FIRST ROUND OF CONCERN ABOUT, UH, THE THREE STORY BUILDINGS UP AGAINST RESIDENTIAL.
SO, SO REALLY YOU'RE JUST PULLING THE TRANSITION ELEMENTS OUT OF THAT, PUTTING IT INTO A SECTION, SEPARATE OPTION SECTION.
IN ORDER TO ALLOW SOUTH ABROAD TO HAVE THE SAME BUILDING HEIGHT THAT NORTH ABROAD HAS.
AND I WOULD SAY I, I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND AGAINST US DOING LIKE A BIG OVERLAY.
I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE A, A, A STATEMENT OF WHENEVER, UM, A MIXED USE OR AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DESIGNATION, A BUTS RESIDENTIAL, THERE SHOULD BE A CONSIDERATION FOR TRANSITION ZONES AND THESE ARE THE TYPES OF TRANSITION ZONES THAT, THAT ARE OFTEN USED.
UH, AND THAT WAY IT COVERS ANY SITUATION THAT POPS UP, WHETHER IT'S MIXED USE COMMERCIAL, THE MIXED USE CORE OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT UP AGAINST THE NEIGHBORHOOD ANYWHERE.
YOU KNOW, AND I THINK WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE DENSER, THE DENSER AREA, OUR DESIGNATED GROWTH AREA WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF GROWTH PRESSURES WHERE WE WANT TO PUT THE GROWTH, I WORRY ABOUT, UM, TRANSITION, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL BUFFERS.
I I HOPE THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES TO DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST BUFFERS.
CUZ WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU START TAKING AWAY LAND FOR THE DEVELOPERS JUST TO GET SCREENING.
I MEAN THERE ARE THERE OTHER, THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO SCREEN AND TRANSITION OTHER THAN JUST SAY WE GOTTA TAKE A CHUNK OF OPEN SPACE.
I I TOTALLY AGREE AND THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING, UH, TO COMMISSIONER DUKE WHEN HE WAS ASKING, IT REALLY IS DEPENDENT ON THAT SITUATION.
MAYBE THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT TOPOGRAPHY CHANGE, YOU KNOW, AND THE RESIDENTIAL IS 50 FEET HIGHER THAN THE LAND FOR THE COMMERCIAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ALWAYS PUT A, YOU KNOW, A SMALL WALL OR A ROW OF TREES THAT ARE NEVER GONNA HAVE AN IMPACT.
SO IT IS REALLY, YOU WANNA, YOU WANNA THINK ABOUT THE SITUATION, LOOK AT A, LOOK AT THE VIEW SHE FROM THE RESIDENTIAL AND THE IMPACT ON IT.
I MEAN THAT'S WHAT ZONING IS ALL ABOUT IS IS PROTECTING PROPERTY VALUES FOR, FOR, FOR PROPERTIES AND ENSURING THAT THAT ADJACENT DEVELOPMENT, UM, DOESN'T INFRINGE UPON THAT PROPERTY REALLY.
SO WHAT WE WOULD WANNA DO, YOU WOULD ENCOURAGE YOUR APPLICANTS TO FIND THE RIGHT SOLUTION,
[00:40:01]
UH, TO APPEASE THEIR ADJACENT NEIGHBORS.UM, HOPEFULLY WE WILL LAY OUT THOSE OPTIONS SO THAT, UM, YOU HAVE A STARTING POINT.
MR. MR. RABBIT, UM, I KNOW I'M GONNA ASK YOU FOR AN ESTIMATE HERE, BUT IF THAT CORE SOUTH OF BROAD HAD DEVELOPMENT ABUTTING, UH, UH, BROAD STREET, WHAT, WHAT TYPE OF SETBACK ARE WE LOOKING AT FROM RESIDENTIAL? I MEAN IN, IN MY MIND VISUALLY IT'S, IT'S HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF FEET.
UM, I WOULD HONESTLY NOT RECOMMEND PUTTING THE DISTANCE IN HERE SO THAT Y'ALL CAN REALLY DIAL IT IN WHEN YOU GET INTO A ZONING ORDINANCE.
CUZ I THINK YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH QUITE A PROCESS TO DETERMINE THAT.
UM, I'VE, I'VE FOR INSTANCE, UH, ALBEMARLE COUNTY HAS ABOUT 150 FEET.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT WE, WHAT WOULD WE WANNA AVOID IF THE 10 FOOT BUFFER PLANTING, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY DOESN'T ACCOMPLISH MUCH.
UM, AND YOU CAN STILL HAVE A, YOU KNOW, A THREE STORY BUILDING UP AGAINST A A TWO STORY TOWN HOME AND IT FEELS A BIT, UH, OPPRESSIVE.
SO WE, UM, I THINK YOU, WE WOULD WANNA DO A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT ANALYSIS AS Y'ALL WORK THROUGH A ZONING ORDINANCE UPDATE AND YOU IDENTIFY THOSE OPTIONS AS TO WHAT THEY WOULD BE.
IS IT FAIR TO SAY WE'RE NOT APPROACHING THE 10 FOOT BUFFER ISSUE? I DON'T, I DON'T, I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE CLO IF IF WE HAVE DEVELOPMENT NEAR BROAD STREET.
I THINK, I THINK YOU HAVE SOME, SOME, SOME, SOME SIGNIFICANT SIZED PARCELS SIGNIFICANT CORRECT.
AND SPACE TO DO THIS TRANSITION AREA.
AND I'VE SEEN SOME GREAT DESIGNS OVER THE YEARS OF BUILD, UH, OF SINGLE BUILDINGS THAT EVEN DROPPED DOWN A STORY TO, TO ADDRESS CONCERNS OF ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL, UM, AND TRY AND MEET, MEET SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS FOR SURE.
I THINK YOU HAVE ROOM TO DO BOTH AND WE WOULD TRY TO ILLUSTRATE THAT.
I A QUESTION, UH, A GAS STATION IS, IS WOULD BE ALLOWED IN, UM, IN, UM, THE MIXED CORE, RIGHT? CERTAINLY.
SUPPOSE WE HAD AN APPLICATION FOR A GAS STATION ON MANNEQUIN ROAD RIGHT AT THE NORTHERN POINT, UH, PART OF THE MIXED CORPS.
THAT, HOW FAR WOULD IT BE FROM THE NEAREST HOUSE? IT, IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE PARTICULAR LOCATION THAT THEY CITED ON THAT SITE PLAN.
AND I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD ALSO WANT 'EM TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IS THE HEIGHT OF THE GAS STATION.
UM, MOST GAS STATIONS AREN'T THREE STORIES, SO I THINK YOU PROBABLY ARE ARE ARE ARE DOING OKAY.
BUT THERE'S EVEN SOME, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A PATTERN BOOK FOR INSTANCE, UM, THERE'S A, A LOT OF LOCALITIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE THAT REALLY GET INTO THE, THE REVIEW OF THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN OF THAT CANOPY.
FOR INSTANCE, MAYBE IT'S A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF THAT HAS A SLOPE TO IT SO IT DOESN'T HAVE THE, YOU KNOW, JUST THIS BOX EFFECT THAT'S KIND OF, UH, UNPLEASANT.
AND SO THERE'S SOME OPTIONS TO DESIGN, UM, A GAS STATION THAT'S A LITTLE MORE IN, MAYBE THAT WASN'T A GOOD EXAMPLE.
LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE I WANTED TO BUILD A THREE STORY STORE OR WHATEVER, UM, HOW FAR WOULD IT BE FROM THE NEAREST RESIDENCE, MR. MYERS? YEAH.
UM, N NOT TO CUT YOU OFF, I'M, I'M SORRY.
NO, I WAS, I WAS, I WAS, UM, ONE THING I WILL SAY IS IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE DOCUMENTS ARE INTENTIONALLY HIGH LEVEL JUST AS OUR COMP PLAN IS.
THERE'S NOT REGULATORY LANGUAGE AND WE'RE NOT IN A POSITION TO SPECULATE WHAT CURRENT HEIGHT MAY BE OR CURRENT SETBACKS MAY BE.
WE CAN THROW OUT NUMBERS ALL DAY, BUT IT WILL DEPEND ON APPLICATIONS AS THEY COME IN.
AND REALLY THE REGULATORY PIECES COME IN IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS.
SO THIS IS A VISION DOCUMENT TO SERVE AS A GUIDEPOST WHEN, UM, SOMEONE'S INTERESTED IN DOING A PROJECT IN GLAND COUNTY, WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL, THEY KNOW, OKAY, THIS CAN WORK POTENTIALLY IN THIS LANE, USE THIS TYPE OF SUGGESTED USE, THEN THEY CAN COME IN TO MEET WITH THE PLANNING STAFF AND WE'RE ABLE TO HAVE A BACK AND FORTH DISCUSSION AND NEGOTIATE UNDER, YOU KNOW, HOW THAT MOVES FORWARD AND WHAT THE COUNTY NEEDS AND WHAT'S ABLE TO BE DONE, IF THAT HELPS.
I'M STILL CONCERNED ABOUT THE THREE STORIES ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
I MEAN, WHAT COULD YOU POSSIBLY DO? YOU'VE GOT THREE STORY BUILDING, WHATEVER WHERE IT'S HOTEL OR OFFICE OR WHATEVER IT IS, AND SINGLE STORY RESIDENCE BESIDE IT.
WHAT KIND OF BUFFER CAN YOU DO PUT IN THERE? I MEAN, IS THERE ANYTHING NOT TO HAVE LOSS OF PRIVACY FOR THOSE CITIZENS? WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT? I, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD RECOMMEND IMPLEMENTING, UH, ONE OF THE TRANSITIONS OR SOME OF THEM.
SO MAYBE IT'S STEPPING THE BUILDING DOWN.
SO SOMETIMES, SO FOR INSTANCE, WHAT, WHAT WE CALL A STEP BACK IS LET'S SAY YOU HAVE A HUNDRED FOOT WIDE BUILDING, UH, AND THAT THE 50 FEET, THAT FRONT ON BROAD STREET WOULD BE THREE STORIES.
THE 50 FEET, THE FRONT ON THE REAR ON THE RESIDENTIAL FACING SIDE
[00:45:01]
WOULD BE TWO STORIES.SO YOU LITERALLY CUT THE TOP OF THE HALF THE, THE HALF OF THE TOP STORY OFF, UM, SO THAT IT DROPS IT DOWN IN HEIGHT.
UM, THAT'S WHAT THAT, THAT'S WHAT WE REFER TO AS A STEPBACK AND WE HAVE SOME OF THOSE ILLUSTRATIONS IN HERE, UM, AS, AS TO WHAT THAT WOULD BE.
UH, AND WE WOULD FURTHER THAT A BIT.
UH, THE OTHER THING IS JUST PUSHING THAT BUILDING FURTHER BACK, LARGER, A LARGER SETBACK.
SO, WELL IT'S, IF YOU PUSH IT FURTHER BACK FROM BROAD, YOU'RE CLOSER TO THE RESIDENCE.
NO, THE, THE SETBACK WOULD BE FROM THE RESIDENTIAL.
SO YOU, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE FURTHER AWAY FROM THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY LINE CLOSER TO THE ROAD.
AND SO TRYING TO GET MY HEAD AROUND, I REALLY DON'T LIKE THE THREE STORIES ON, ON THE SOUTH SIDE AT ALL, BUT IF WE WERE TO APPROVE THIS AND WE COULD, AND OUR PLAN IS ONE, ONE TO TWO STORIES AND WE GET AN APPLICATION THAT'S THREE STORIES.
THERE'S, WE'RE NOT COMPELLED TO APPROVE A THREE STORY.
AND JUST, I'M JUST LOOKING, A, A TWO STORY HOME WITHOUT AN ATTIC IS 20 TO 25 FEET AND A THREE STORY BUILDING IS 33 TO 40 FEET.
WE'RE TALKING AN ADDITIONAL MAYBE 10 FEET CORRECT HOUSE.
AND IN COMMERCIAL NOW WHAT IS THE HEIGHT LIMIT? SO IT'S DESIGNATED COMMERCIAL NOW, WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY GO THERE BY, I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT YOUR QUESTION? SURE.
SO IT'S CURRENTLY DESIGNATED COMMERCIAL.
ASSUMING IT'S B ONE, IT'S B THESE ARE, THERE'S SOME B ONES.
UM, YEAH, THESE ARE MOSTLY B ONE S ALONG, UH, WHERE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE EDGE, IT'S A B ONE.
NOW WE'RE STRUGGLING TO FIND IT CUZ WE'RE ALL HERE.
SO IN THE B ONE ZONING DISTRICT, UM, MAXIMUM HEIGHT, THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE 35, IT'S 35 FEET.
SO IT COULD BE THREE STORIES NOW.
PROPER PRS THERE, PROPERS ON SOME OF THOSE BUILDINGS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW.
AND THAT BE ONE DISTRICT BEHIND THAT WAY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS MS. REHA? THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD FOR MS. MAR HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTION, BUT ARE YOU PREPARED TO GIVE US SOME GUIDELINES ON THE SETBACKS AT THE END OF THIS PROCESS? THAT IS A NEXT STEP.
THAT'S A RECOMMENDED NEXT STEP.
AND FOR, UM, LAND USE THE DESIGN STANDARDS IS PRIORITY ONE, ALONG WITH, UM, PRIORITY TWO BEING ZONING UPDATES.
SO BETWEEN BLENDING THOSE TWO, UM, WITH UH, BUILDING FORM, BUILDING HEIGHT, KIND OF YOUR SETBACKS, YOUR TRANSITION ELEMENTS, THAT REALLY COMES IN WITH DESIGN.
SO AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE PREPARED TO ACT ON AS STAFF IF THE PLAN MOVES FORWARD AND IS ADOPTED.
UM, I WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALREADY STARTING TO WORK ON ELEMENTS FROM THE COURTHOUSE VILLAGE PLAN.
UM, SO BECAUSE I WOULD THINK A DEVELOPER WOULD HAVE TO KNOW IF HE'S BETWEEN BROAD STREET AND THE RESIDENTIAL, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THESE, THESE THREE STORIES VERSUS TWO STORIES VERSUS A HUNDRED FEET VERSUS 200 FEET, YOU KNOW, HE HAS TO HAVE SOME IDEA WHAT HIS PARAMETERS ARE.
I DON'T NEED TO REQUEST MR. CHAIR'S PERMISSION CAN JUST ABSOLUTELY INTERRUPT.
UH, I'M TAKING THE NIGHT OFF AGAIN.
UM, SO, UM, I'M, I'M FOR CITIZENS OUT AT HOME OR HERE, I'M TRYING TO COMPARE THESE TWO MAPS, THE ORIGINAL AND THE MOST CURRENT UPDATED AMENDED AS FURTHER RESTATED, KIND OF MAPPED THAT WE HAVE OVER HERE.
THAT'S BEEN THROUGH SEVERAL ITERATIONS AND IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE SITTING IN A TENNIS, TENNIS MATCH HERE.
I'M GOING BACK AND FORTH TRYING TO COMPARE.
IS THERE ANY CHANGE TO THE BOUNDARY? NO, THE OVERALL AREA BOUNDARY? NO SIR.
SO BOUNDARY LINES ARE THE SAME? YES, SIR.
ALL I'M TRYING TO GET AT, KEEP THINGS SIMPLE AND GET AT THE PROBLEMS WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE HERE.
I GET THIS AS A VISIONARY DOCUMENT AND THE TEMPTATION IS TO GET DOWN TO THE SPECIFICS VERY QUICKLY.
UM, IF YOU DON'T PLAN, YOU PLAN TO FAIL ALL THAT.
SO WE'RE PLANNING, WHICH IS GOOD.
UH, BUT WHAT PROBLEMS ARE WE TRYING TO SOLVE INSIDE THE EXTERIOR BOUNDARY HERE? I GUESS WE, THE, THE, THE TWO THAT I SEE IS BOTH SIDES OF BROAD BEING THE SAME AND THEN DOTTED LINES AROUND THE RESIDENTIAL TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S TRANSITIONS.
IS THAT THE BULK OF WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE? THE CHANGES? ARE THERE BIG PICTURE THINGS HERE THAT I'M MISSING ON THAT OR IS IT JUST REALLY EXTERIOR BOUNDARIES? THE SAME, BOTH SIDES OF BROAD
[00:50:01]
ARE CONTEMPLATED BEING TREATED THE SAME.AND THEN DOTTED TRANSITIONS WHERE THERE'S RESIDENTIAL IS THAT, THAT IS ONE OF THE MAJOR, UM, ITEMS THAT WE ARE LOOKING TO GET SOME CLEAR DIRECTION ON FROM TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION.
UM, WITH YOU ALL AS A BOARD AND THE COMMISSION.
UM, TALKING, THE OTHER PIECE THAT WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR IS SOME DIRECTION ON IS, UH, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE, UM, THAT THERE'S CONSENSUS ON CLEARLY DEFINING THE FUTURE STUDY AREA, UM, THAT WE'RE CLARIFYING AND PROVIDING CLARITY THAT THE GREENWAYS AND ROADS WITHIN THE SMALL AREA LIMITS ARE JUST CONCEPTUAL IN THEIR ALIGNMENTS ONLY, YOU KNOW, AS A PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT MOVES FORWARD, THAT ALIGNMENT MAY CHANGE AS TO WHERE IT IS ON A PARCEL, BUT IT TIES BACK TO OUR MAJOR THROUGH FAIR PLAN.
THE OTHER PIECE REALLY IS GETTING, UM, SOME CLARITY ON, YOU KNOW, LODGING.
THERE WERE DIS THERE WAS DISCUSSION ON LODGING OR RECOMMENDING LODGING WITH INAPPROPRIATE SCALE.
SO IT'S GETTING THAT CLARITY AND DIRECTION, BUT YES, THAT IS THE MAJOR ITEM.
SO THE LODGING ISSUE, UM, NORTH BROAD RIGHT NOW, LODGING IS PERMITTED THE CORE VERSUS THE TRANSITION.
IT, IT WAS A PROPOSED, UH, USE YES.
THAT IT WOULD BE PERMITTED CURRENTLY OR PROPOSED CURRENTLY.
I THINK ITS TOO, IT'S CURRENTLY ALLOWED AS WELL.
CURRENTLY LODGING IS ALLOWED NORTH ABROAD.
THE CONTEMPLATION WOULD BE TO MAKE IT SYMMETRIC AND LODGING WOULD BE ALLOWED SOUTH ABROAD.
WITH OBVIOUS HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS NOT YES SIR.
ARE THERE OTHER MAY I'M TRYING TO JUST SUMMARIZE THE, THE WHAT'S WE'RE BEING ASKED OF THE BOARDS HERE SO THAT WE CAN WEIGH IN AND MAYBE, OR MAYBE NOT BUILD A CONSENSUS AROUND THE, THE CENTRAL ISSUES.
I WAS GONNA SAY THE CORE ISSUES, BUT THAT'S THE CENTRAL ISSUES.
UM, LET ME ASK IT ANOTHER WAY.
TWO, TWO MORE REAL QUICK ONES AND THEN I'LL YIELD BACK.
UM, ARE THERE RESIDUAL CONCERNS FROM CITIZENS MORE THAN ONE CITIZEN THAT ARE NOT BEING ADDRESSED BY THE PROPOSAL? IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE, I THOUGHT I HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT MIDDLE GROUND AND CONSENSUS AND ARE THERE FOLKS CONCERNS THAT ARE NOT BEING ADDRESSED? WHAT, WHAT ELSE OUT THERE IS NOT BEING ADDRESSED BY THE, AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR AT ALL? YES SIR.
AM I CONFUSING THINGS? YES, I, I WILL SAY THERE ARE CONCERNS THAT WE'VE NOT ADDRESSED.
I WILL SAY THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF ONE-OFF CONCERNS.
AGAIN, WHEN YOU'RE DOING A PLANNING PROCESS, IT'S YOU'RE WORKING TO PLAN FOR A MIDDLE GROUND AND PLANNING FOR A COLLECTIVE AS WELL AS A LONG-TERM VISION.
UM, IT'S VERY HARD TO MEET INDIVIDUALIST INDIVIDUAL PREFERENCES.
UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S NOT A LOT OF COALESCING AROUND COMMON THEMES.
WE'VE WORKED TO COALESCE WHAT WE'VE HEARD AROUND THE COMMON THEMES WITH TRANSITION ELEMENTS, TRANSITION ZONES, UM, HOW WE'RE TREATING CERTAIN, UM, LAND USE CATEGORIES, MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE COMPLIMENTARY OF ONE ANOTHER AND MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE EMPHASIZING THINGS FOR CLARITY.
UM, WELL, YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR GOALS IS TO MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY ALL THE TIME.
METIMES, I TRY EVERY DAY AND SOMETIMES I ALWAYS FAIL, SOMETIMES WE FALL SHORT.
AND I GUESS THE FOLLOW ON FROM THAT IS, IF IN DOING THESE MOST RECENT CHANGES IN MAKING CERTAIN FOLKS HAPPY, IS THAT MAKING OTHER FOLKS UNHAPPY? I, I WOULD SAY ARE WE MAKING EVERYBODY HAPPY ALL THE TIME?
I THINK IT'S SIX AND ONE HALF A DOZEN IN ANOTHER.
YEAH, AGAIN, I'M TRYING TO GET AT WITH THE RESIDUAL, UM, CONCERNS THAT MAY BE LEFT BEHIND IN THIS PROCESS AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE BRING ALL THOSE CONCERNS FORWARD WITH THIS.
THE LAST PIECE, AND THIS ISN'T MEANT TO BE TRIVIA PURSUIT DATE OR I GOT YOU KIND OF THING.
HOW MUCH OF THIS VILLAGE BOUNDARY IS IN THE TUCKO CREEK SERVICE DISTRICT AND HAS ACCESS TO, UH, PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER, THE ENTIRE DISTRICT OR PART OF IT? BECAUSE WITHOUT THAT, OBVIOUSLY HIGHER DENSITY USES ARE REALLY KIND OF MOOT.
I'LL SAY THAT ALL OF THE AREA THAT IS INCLUDED IS, UM, EITHER IN THE TUCKAHOE CREEK SERVICE DISTRICT OR IT'S INCLUDED IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IN OUR, UM, PUBLIC UTILITIES MASTER PLAN EFFORTS.
THE PUBLIC UTILITY MASTER PLAN EFFORTS? YES, SIR.
MASTER PLAN THAT WOULD INCLUDE AREAS THAT CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT DO NOT HAVE, UM, ACTIVE, UH, WATER AND SEWER.
SO WE HAVE SOME RESIDENTIAL AREAS AND LET'S SEE IF YOU, IF YOU, WE HAVE SOME RESIDENTIAL AREAS THAT DO NOT HAVE WATER AND SEWER, BUT THEN THERE'S ACCESS TO WATER AND SEWER IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT.
WE ALSO HAVE COMMERCIAL CORRIDORS, UM, YOU KNOW, RIGHT ALONG ASHLAND ROAD THAT THEY COULD, THEY'RE IN THE SERVICE DISTRICT BUT THEY DON'T HAVE, UH, MUNICIPAL WATER AND SEW THAT, THAT'S MY QUESTION.
IF YOU OVERLAID THE BOUNDARY OF THE DISTRICT, CUZ YOU CAN'T GO OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARY.
EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO DO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, UM, YOU CAN'T DRAG THE PIPELINES OUTSIDE.
SO IF THAT BOUNDARY LINE IS SOMEWHERE, I, AGAIN, IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE TRUE IN PURSUITS, BUT YOU SEE WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT.
THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY REQUIRED TO, UH, SUPPORT HIGHER DENSITY
[00:55:01]
USES.UM, WITHOUT THAT YOU'VE GOT LOWER DENSITY USES BY DEFINITION.
ALL RIGHT, WELL I'LL, I'LL YIELD BACK THAT AGAIN IF WE COULD MAYBE LOOK INTO THAT LATER ON AND FIGURE IT OUT.
UM, YES, AND I WILL SAY THAT, UM, THE FUTURE STUDY AREA THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED FOR CALLING OUT THAT DOES HAVE A WATER AND SEWER AS WELL, UM, FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND HIGHER POTENTIAL DENSITY PURPOSES.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S TO BE DETERMINED.
SO EVERYTHING IN THE VILLAGE, I GUESS THE VILLAGE CORE IS IN THE TUCKAHOE CREEK SERVICE DISTRICT? THAT'S A SPECIFIC QUESTION.
NOT AVAILABLE OR THEY'RE IN THE DISTRICT.
SO, UM, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UM, THE, THE PARCELS THAT ARE WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THESE SERVICE DISTRICTS.
SO THE AREA THAT IS ARE ELIGIBLE TO, UH, JOIN THE DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, PAY THE ABOR TAX, YOU KNOW, BE ELIGIBLE FOR GETTING, UH, PUBLIC UTILITIES.
THE ENTIRE VILLAGE IS IN THAT AREA THAT THEY'RE WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES.
ARE THEY ACTUALLY IN THE DISTRICT OR NOT? THEY'RE, THEY'RE, IT'S SPOTTY.
THEY WOULD HAVE, A LOT OF THE PROPERTIES WOULD THEN HAVE TO ASK TO BE IN THE DISTRICT IN ORDER TO BE, UM, ACTUALLY SERVED BY THE WATER AND SEWER.
SO THE ANSWER WAS NO, THEY'RE NOT, NOT ALL IN DISTRICT.
BUT THEY'RE ALL ELIGIBLE TO YES, MA'AM.
I HAVE A QUESTION JUST FOR MS ANS, UM, I KNOW WE'RE REITERATING, BUT IF SOMEONE BRINGS A PLAN TO DEVELOP IN THE CORE, CAN YOU PLEASE JUST GIVE US A QUICK WALKTHROUGH OF THE PROCESS THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH? JUST BECAUSE THE VISUALIZATION AND THE PLAN IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT PEOPLE ARE CONTEMPLATING, AND I JUST WANT ADMINISTRATION TO SPEAK TO IT.
MR. VARES, IN YOUR SCENARIO, WOULD IT BE WITH THE SOUTH ABROAD BEING IN THE CORE OR YES.
WITH THE SOUTH ABROAD IN THE CORE.
UM, THAT WOULD OCCUR SIMILAR TO HOW ANY PROJECT APPLICATIONS START TO GOES THROUGH THE PRE-APPLICATION PROCESS.
OBVIOUSLY MEETING WITH STAFF, THERE'S A COMMUNITY MEETING.
THERE POTENTIALLY IS, UM, AN AGENDA ITEM OR REVIEW BY OUR DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, AS WELL AS COMING TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND, UM, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WITH PUBLIC HEARINGS.
THERE MAY OR MAY NOT BE A REZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, UM, THAT ACCOMPANIES IT, OR IT MAY JUST BE SOMETHING THAT GOES THROUGH THE PLAN OF DEVELOPMENT PROCESS BECAUSE IT FITS PERFECTLY WITHIN WHAT WE'RE OUTLINING AS POTENTIAL OPTIONAL USES OR COMBINATIONS OF USES.
I I JUST WANTED YOU TO REITERATE THAT BECAUSE IT'S NOT US APPROVING THIS PLAN DOES NOT MEAN SOMETHING SOUTH ABROAD IS BEING DEVELOPED TOMORROW.
AND I WILL SAY IF THIS PLAN DOES MOVE FORWARD, UM, NO LAND USE DESIGNATIONS CHANGE WITH ADOPTION, UM, OF THE PLAN.
SO AGAIN, IT GIVES SOMEONE THE ABILITY TO BRING SOMETHING FORWARD TO THEN SAY, UM, AND I KNOW WE HAVE, UM, A LOT OF CRITERIA THAT WE LOOK AT WHEN WE HAVE APPLICATIONS.
ONE OF THOSE IS, IS SOMETHING CONSISTENT WITH THE COMP PLAN? THIS WOULD GIVE THE ABILITY FOR STAFF TO THEN ASSESS BASED ON THE, UM, AMENDED INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THROUGH THIS PROCESS TO SAY, DOES IT OR DOES IT NOT? BASED ON UPDATED INFORMATION AS WE TRY TO WORK TO MEET, YOU KNOW, THE NEEDS OF A DESIGNATED GROWTH AREA.
UM, SO THE, UM, SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, YOU ARE
I LOOKED UP AND THERE I WAS BY, I'M HERE FOR YOU.
UM, SO THIS IS A PLAN, THIS IS A VISION.
WHAT DO WE, SO WHEN THE ORDINANCES ARE WRITTEN IS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DENSITY.
SO RIGHT NOW, I CAN'T TELL BY LOOKING AT THIS WHAT THE DENSITY IS LIKE SIX TO AN ACRE OR CORRECT.
SO, SO WE DO, WE DO DISCUSS DENSITY ON THE RESIDENTIAL, UH, PIECES.
UH, THE NA THE NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL AND THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL.
BUT IN THE MIXED USE AREAS, IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREAS, WE DO NOT GIVE A SPECIFIC DENSITY RANGE.
UM, DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT'S MIXED USE, IT, IT, IT COULD BE SOMEWHAT CHALLENGING TO GET TO A SPECIFIC DENSITY CUZ YOU'RE MIXING USES.
IT MIGHT BE VERTICALLY, IT MIGHT BE HORIZONTALLY.
SO WE WANNA PROVIDE THAT FLEXIBILITY, UH, AND ALLOW THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND THE APP, THE APPLICATION THAT COMES BEFORE YOU TO DETERMINE WHAT, WHAT'S THE APPROPRIATE DENSITY ON THAT.
AND THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
MY QUESTION THEN BECOMES, HOW ARE THE ORDINANCES
[01:00:01]
GONNA BE WRITTEN ON DENSITY? SO WE'RE SAYING IT COULD BE KIND OF WHATEVER RIGHT NOW, BASED ON THIS PLAN.HOW ARE WE GONNA WRITE THE ORDINANCES ON DENSITY? THAT, THAT IS A PROCESS WITHIN ITSELF? YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN GO
UH, YOU, YOU HAVE TRADITIONAL ZONING ORDINANCES, YOU HAVE FORM-BASED CODE ORDINANCES, YOU HAVE HYBRID, UH, FORM-BASED CODE.
SO, UM, THE, WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS WHAT WE'RE THE DIRECTION WE'RE, WE'RE HEADING IN, UH, WHAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS ON BUILDING FORM IS TO REALLY FOCUS ON HEIGHT AND SIZE OF BUILDINGS AND THAT THAT FLUSHES OUT THE AMOUNT OF UNITS YOU CAN HAVE IN, IN A PROPERTY IF YOU HAVE APPROPRIATE SETBACKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, YOU CAN ONLY FIT SO MUCH INTO A BUILDING AND MAKE IT COMPATIBLE.
UM, THAT WAY YOU, IF YOU, A GOOD EXAMPLE IS A VERY SMALL MIXED USE SITE CAN HAVE A HIGHER DENSITY RANGE AND STILL BE TOTALLY APPROPRIATE THREE STORIES AND IT'S JUST GOT TWO UNITS ABOVE, BUT IT'S ON A QUARTER ACRE.
UM, THAT'S AN AWFULLY HIGH DENSITY THAT HAPPENED REALLY QUICK.
UM, SO BY CREATING A LITTLE BIT OF FLEXIBILITY THERE IS WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S A, THAT'S A, THAT'S A BEAST WITHIN ITSELF TO KIND OF TACKLE AS FAR AS SPECIFIC DENSITIES IN IT, ZONING ORDINANCE AND HOW Y'ALL AS A COMMUNITY WANT TO WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.
BUT IN THAT EXAMPLE YOU GIVE, AND I COULD SEE YOU DIFFERENT MIXES LIKE APARTMENTS OR WHATEVER, OR ABOVE CORRECT.
RETAIL, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
THAT MIGHT CHANGE THE AESTHETICS AND THE WAY IT LOOKS, BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF SERVICES THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE.
SO DENSITY DRIVES COST TO THE COUNTY, SCHOOLS, FIRE, EMS. MM-HMM.
UM, SO DENSITY REALLY MATTERS.
UH, SO IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THEY'RE ABOVE, BELOW OR AROUND WHATEVER THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE PER ACRE MATTERS.
SO I DON'T, YOU KNOW, THE FREEDOM IT CERTAINLY DOES IS NOT THE ISSUE.
UH, AND THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA HERE, WE HAVE PROFFERS TO OFFSET THOSE IMPACTS BASED ON THE, THE, THE DIRECT IMPACTS OF THAT PROJECT.
AND HOPEFULLY THOSE ARE MITIGATED WHEN THEY'RE BROUGHT BEFORE YOU.
UM, AND THAT'S WHY YOU TYPICALLY HAVE AN ANALYSIS OF THOSE IMPACTS, RIGHT.
AS PART OF YOUR REZONING APPLICATION.
SO THAT Y'ALL CAN FIGURE OUT, THERE'S SO MANY UNITS, THERE'S SO MUCH SQUARE FOOT OF COMMERCIAL OR RETAIL OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.
UM, AND YOU CAN DETERMINE THOSE IMPACTS AS PART OF THAT AS WELL AS, AS TRAFFIC AND SCHOOLS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO, UM, HOW DO WE WANT TO SORT OF, I MEAN WE'VE GREAT QUESTIONS.
DO WE WANT TO SORT OF TALK AROUND LIKE HOW WE'RE FEELING ABOUT, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FIRST ONE, THE REPLACE MIXED USE TRANSITION WITH MIXED USE CORE.
AND WHAT GOT ME MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT WAS SOUTH ABROAD.
SO WHAT GOT ME MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT IS LOOKING AT THE CURRENT PLAN AND WHERE THINGS ARE.
SO I I'M, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
WELL, THE PLANNING COMMISSION DEFERRED THIS THING, SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE, WE HEAR FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT Y'ALL ARE GETTING, THIS IS HEADING IN A DIRECTION THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH.
I'VE RE I LOOKED AT ALL THE PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS ON THIS SHEET OF PAPER THAT, AND I'M, I'M PLEASED THAT THEY RESPONDED TO THE MAJORITY OF THE CITIZENS' COMMENTS THAT WE'VE HEARD OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS.
THE THING THAT I WORRY ABOUT IS WE OPERATE A LOT DIFFERENT THAN WASHINGTON DOES.
YOU, WASHINGTON DIDN'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO US DOWN HERE, BUT WE'RE LOCAL PEOPLE AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE, THE SLATE.
AND I THINK ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY SUGGESTED, UH, PLUS MINUS SOME, REFINING THEM IN THE, YOU KNOW, THE DEVILS IN THE DETAILS ARE A BIG IMPROVEMENT OVER WHERE WE STARTED WITH.
SO, UH, I'M WHOLEHEARTED IN AGREEMENT WITH, UH, ALL OF THE ITEMS ON THIS PARTICULAR LIST THAT THEY'VE COME UP WITH SO FAR.
WELL, MY CONCERNS HAVE PRETTY MUCH BEEN ADDRESSED.
THE, UH, THE DIFFERENCE IN THE, UH, USE ON, UH, SOUTH OF BROAD STREET AND THE, UM, AND THE TRANSITION AND THE TRANSITION IS STILL SORT OF A, A, A, A STICKING POINT.
CAUSE I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT'S GONNA BE BECAUSE, I MEAN, THAT'S THE REASON I BROUGHT UP THE SERVICE STATION THING.
UH, MOST PEOPLE, UH, AS NECESSARY AS GAS STATIONS ARE, MOST PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN AT LEAST THOSE MOVING TO GLAND WOULD RATHER NOT LIVE WITHIN EYESIGHT OF ONE.
SO RIGHT HERE, IF SOMEONE BUILT A GAS STATION, AND THAT'S, THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE
[01:05:01]
ON MANNEQUIN ROAD, AT THE NORTHERNMOST POINT OF THE MIXED CORE, HOW MUCH TRANSITION WOULD THERE BE INTO OF BEFORE THEY RUN INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD? OKAY.AND, UM, MAYBE THERE'S NO ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION RIGHT NOW.
WOULD, WOULD YOU NOT STILL BE ABLE TO SEE A SHELL SIGN FROM THAT LOCATION? YEAH, BECAUSE THERE'S A GAS STATION THERE, THERE'S A GAS STATION 200 YARDS AWAY.
SO THERE'S ONE, THERE'S ONE THERE.
NOW, WAIT A MINUTE, I'M TALKING ABOUT AND MANDY CAN ROAD.
THAT'S, IT'S A GAS STATION 200 YARDS WEST ON BROAD STREET.
IT'S ON BROAD STREET, NOT ON MANNEQUIN.
I, I'M JUST, I MEAN THAT'S JUST NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.
I'M TALKING ABOUT ON MANNEQUIN ROAD AT THE NORTHERN MO POINT OF THE, OF THE MIXED CORE BROUGHT ON MANNEQUIN ROAD AT THE MIXED AT THE RIGHT, RIGHT HERE.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF SOMEONE BUILT A GAS THAT WANTED TO BUILD A GAS STATION RIGHT THERE, HOW FAR WOULD IT BE? BECAUSE THERE'S NO GAS STATION THERE NOW.
ALL THE GAS STATIONS ARE ON TWO 50, RIGHT? YES.
IT UM, SO I MEAN THAT'S JUST A QUESTION YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT UP BY SEMORE CREEK ENTRANCE.
SO HOW FAR, SO RIGHT NOW THE CLOSEST ONES LOOK JUST LOOKING AT, UH, THE MAP IS BY SADDLE CREEK PARKWAY.
SO FROM HERE TO HERE, WELL, MY QUESTION IS, OKAY, HOW IF SOMEONE BUILT A GAS STATION RIGHT THERE WHEN I'M, WHERE I'M TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE ON MANNEQUIN ROAD IT WOULD BE, BUT UH, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY GAS STATIONS TRAFFIC THAT FAR NORTH OF, UH, OF BROAD STREET.
SO, UH, HOW FAR WOULD IT BE FROM THE RESIDENTIAL AT, UH, SECTION IF YOU BUILT IT RIGHT THERE AT THE NORTHERNMOST POINT OF MANNEQUIN ROAD? I MEAN ON MANNEQUIN ROAD AT THE NORTHERNMOST POINT OF THE MIXED CORE SECTION, HOW FAR WOULD IT BE, UH, TO THE RESIDENTIAL SECTION? I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD WANT TO BUILD A GAS STATION THERE.
A A GAS STATION IS ALLOWED AND IT'S ALLOWED NOW.
SO WHAT DOES THIS, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MANY IMPACTS OUR DECISION FOR THIS PLAN BECAUSE I JUST WANTED TO NOTE, BECAUSE ONE OF THE STICKING POINTS WAS THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE NEIGHBOR SAID THAT THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OR ANY AT FIRST, THERE WASN'T ANY TRANSITION BETWEEN THE MIXED CORE AND THE RESIDENTIAL.
NOW WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE TRANSITION NOW? AND I THOUGHT WHAT I HEARD STAFF WAS SAYING IS THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE WORKING ON.
WHAT THEY'LL HAVE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
WELL, WHAT THOSE POTENTIAL TRANSITIONS CAN BE.
I MEAN, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, JOHN, YOU CAN SEE ON THE EXISTING, THERE'S NO REAL DESIGNATED TRANSITION ON THE PROPOSED.
THAT RED DASH LINE IS PROBABLY WHERE YOU COULDN'T BUILD A GAS STATION CUZ IT'S A TRANSITION ZONE THAT'S YET TO BE DEFINED.
THIS IS A VISIONARY KIND OF THING.
UH, YOU WOULD STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE REZONING PROCESS AND MAKE IT AN UP OR DOWN VOTE DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT CITIZENS THINK ABOUT IT.
SO, I MEAN, DOES THAT HELP? I MEAN 50 FEET, 200 FEET, 500 FEET.
IT'S LIKE WE'RE FOCUS ON FOCUSING ON THE SPECIFICS TOO MUCH RIGHT NOW.
I MEAN, I I I KNOW CITIZENS AND I WOULD ALSO WANT TO KNOW THE EXACT FOOTAGE OF THESE THINGS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT COULD BE, IF WE HAD TO BREAK IT DOWN WITH EVERY SINGLE ISSUE, EVERY SINGLE CASE BEFORE IT WAS EVER BROUGHT UP, WE'D NEVER GET ANYTHING DONE.
WE, WE'VE ALMOST GOT TO DO IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
WELL I I'LL ASSURE YOU THAT THE, AT THE, UH, PUBLIC HEARING, THE GOOD CI CITIZENS OF GLAND COUNTY WILL BRING IT UP.
WE HAVE TO HAVE A VISION AND A PLAN TO MOVE FORWARD.
WE CAN'T BE JUST LOCKED UP AND NOT DOING THINGS BASED ON WHAT IFS.
WHAT I'VE TRIED TO STRESS AND, AND WHY I ASKED QUESTIONS THAT I DID WAS WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO COME BACK AND REVIEW THESE CASE BY CASE.
[01:10:01]
INTO ANY SINGLE ELEMENT OF THIS.WE HAVE A VISION THAT WE CAN BRING TO THE BUSINESS AND THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY THAT HELPS GOLIN GROW.
AND ANYBODY WHO ENJOYS OUR TAX RATES AND THE BENEFITS OF LIVING IN THIS COUNTY, BUT HAS NO DESIRE TO SEE TOP LINE REVENUE GROW, THEN OPPOSE THIS.
I'M SORRY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO US FOR A VISION.
THIS IS IMPORTANT TO OUR COMMUNITY AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO.
I WHERE ARE WE LANDING ON LODGING? UH, YOU, YOU TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE EARLIER.
DID WE PUT THAT ON TO BED AND, AND I WANNA MAKE SURE, I MEAN NO WE DIDN'T COME ON TRYING TO LEAVE IT UP A LITTLE BIT.
SO WE WEREN'T GONNA HAVE APPROPRIATE SCALE BEFORE.
IT'S KIND OF THE, WELL PREVIOUSLY IT'S KIND OF THE TREND.
SAME THING WITH THE TRANSITION.
I THINK WE'RE JUST MOVING, MOVING PIECES AROUND, BUT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT, UM, WE DON'T SPECIFICALLY LIST LODGING IN THE NEXT USE CORE.
I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO AND SAY LODGING AT AN APPROPRIATE SCALE.
WE HAVE LISTED IT IN THE MIXED USE TRANSITION.
AND AGAIN, OH IT'S, SORRY I CAN'T READ 'EM TOO FAR AWAY.
UM, SO IT IS LISTED AS A PRIMARY USE IN THE MIXED USE CORE.
SO IT WOULD BE ALLOWED NORTH AND SOUTH OF BROAD STREET IN THE MIXED USE CORE.
BUT WE WOULD ADD THE LANGUAGE APPROPRIATELY SCALED WELL IN YOUR PROPOSED IMPROVEMENT SHEET THAT WE HAVE HERE.
THE RIGHT SIDE SAYS REMOVE IT, REMOVE LODGING AS A PRIMARY USE.
NO, IT DOESN'T AS A PRIMARY USE.
WE'RE, WE'RE ALSO WORKING TO MAKE SURE THAT'S APPROPRIATE, THAT THERE'S CLARITY CUZ THERE WAS A CONCERN OF IT BEING A PRIMARY.
WE'RE JUST WORKING TO PROVIDE CLARITY.
I'M, I'M SORRY, I'M LISTENING AND RESTATE.
SO IT'S STILL A PRIMARY USE, IT'S JUST RESTATED AS AS APPROPRIATE SCALE? YES SIR.
SO AGAIN, IT IT, IT'S TRYING TO ADDRESS THE CONCERN WE HEARD AND MAKING SURE THAT WE STILL, UM, HAVE SOMETHING THAT THERE WAS, UM, DESIRE TO HAVE, BUT THAT IT'S WITHIN SCALE AND THAT IT FITS SPACE IN PLACE.
WHY WOULD WE DO ANYTHING IF IT DIDN'T FIT? AND IT WASN'T A SCALE BEFORE, BUT BUT CLARITY, IT APPEARED THAT, I MEAN THERE'S CERTAINLY SOME, SOME CONCERN EXPRESSED AND I BELIEVE A LOT OF THAT WAS IT COULD BE A HUGE HOTEL.
WE DON'T WANT A BIG HOTEL IN THE CORNER.
YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT HEIGHT, YOU'VE GOT HEIGHT LIMITS.
SO WE JUST WANTED TO EMPHASIZE THAT.
SO HOW DO YOU WRITE A, AN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS APPROPRIATE SCALE? UH, THAT'S WHERE YOU ALWAYS, AS WE READ EARLIER, THE HEIGHT.
SO YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT.
SO YOU'RE NOT SAYING HEIGHT AS FAR AS THE PLAN.
WE ALREADY SAY SAY IT'S PICKED UP UP TO THREE STORIES ONLY IN THAT VILLAGE CORE AND UP TO THREE STORIES IS APPROPRIATE SCALE.
IS THAT THE DIFFERENT WORDS FOR SAYING THE SAME THING? CORRECT.
I BELIEVE SO YOU, YOU CURRENTLY HAVE SOME PROPOSED DEVELOPMENTS.
THERE ARE THREE STORIES AND SOME LARGE SCALE UH, GROCERY STORE THAT'S ESSENTIALLY ALMOST THE SAME HEIGHT.
IT'S TRYING TO SEE WHAT'S OUT THERE NOW AND WHAT'S PLANNED.
UM, THERE'S NOBODY AT THE MIC.
UH, YOU WAIT TO HEAR THE QUESTION FIRST BEFORE YOU.
UM, A FEW YEARS BACK, SOME OF US RECALL, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME, AN INORDINATE AMOUNT OF TIME ON UM, FIGURING OUT WHAT TO DO IN THE CORE WHEN IT PERTAINS TO MIXED USE.
AND WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MIXED USE, MIXED USE CORE MIXED USE TRANSITION MIXED USE, ENSURING THAT WHAT WE ACTUALLY END UP WITH IS A MIXTURE OF USES AND NOT ALL MULTIFAMILY AND NO COMMERCIAL.
AND SO WE CAME UP WITH WHAT'S CALLED AN M P U D UH, MIXED USE PLAN DEVELOPMENT.
AND IT ENSURED WITH PHASING AND WHATNOT THAT THE DEVELOPER COULDN'T JUST BUILD MULTIFAMILY AND RUN AND THAT WOULD OVERWHELM THE SCHOOLS AND NOT AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.
AND WE CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE AN APARTMENT ZONING SO THERE'S NO APARTMENTS IN CENTERVILLE CUZ YOU CAN'T RE REZONE TO ONE CUZ THERE ISN'T ONE.
BUT THERE IS AN M P U D WHICH SAYS IF YOU WANNA DO SOME MULTIFAMILY LIKE TOWNHOUSES, THEN YOU'VE GOTTA MARRY THAT WITH SOME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO MAKE IT A TRUE MIXED USE.
UM, THE QUESTION I'M BUILDING UP TO, I'M GONNA LAND THIS POINT IN
[01:15:01]
A MINUTE, UM, IS, IS MAKING SURE THAT IN CHANGING THE CORE, EXPANDING THE CORE, CHANGING THE DEFINITIONS, ADDING LODGING, THAT SOMEHOW WE'RE NOT INTRODUCING THAT LOOPHOLE WHERE SOMEONE COULD BUILD TOWN HOMES FOR INSTANCE IN MIXED USE CORE.IT TALKS ABOUT UH, UH, RESIDENTIAL PERRAN, TOWN HOMES AND MULTIFAMILY THAT SOMEONE WE'RE NOT INTRODUCING THAT LOOPHOLE WHERE SOMEBODY COULD JUST BUILD A ROW OF THAT.
NOW UNDERSTAND BY, RIGHT, I GUESS YOU CAN BUILD TRIPLEXES AND TOWN HOMES BUT NO MORE THAN THAT.
UM, BUT YOU COULD HAVE A CLUSTER OR A COLLECTION OF THOSE AND END UP WITHIN THE SAME EFFECT.
SOAY MY CONCERNS ON THAT, THAT WE'VE NOT INTRODUCED SOME LOOPHOLE WHERE YES, WE COULD END UP WITH MULTIFAMILY OF WHATEVER SCALE, TWO STORY, THREE STORY AND JUST A ROW OF THAT AND NOT END UP WITH WHAT WE THINK WE ARE GOING FOR, WHICH IS A MIXED, TRUE MIXED USE OF SOME RESTAURANTS, SOME RETAIL, SOME COMMERCIALS, SOME YOU KNOW, MIXED USE.
SO ONE YOU POINTED OUT A GOOD FACT THAT WHAT OUR EXISTING ZONING CURRENTLY DOES OR DOES NOT ALLOW AND ONE OF THOSE IS UM, APARTMENTS.
UM, I KNOW YOU ALL HAVE A COPY OF THOSE.
UM, UP ON THE DS THERE IS A TABLE THAT ACTUALLY IS THE CURRENTLY IN USE TABLE AND IT HAS A FINAL COLUMN THAT ACTUALLY CORRELATES ALL OF THESE PROPOSED LAND USES TO EXISTING ZONING AND WHAT IT IS MOST SIMILAR TO.
SO THERE IS A TIEBACK IN SOME RELATIONAL FORM TO ALL OF OUR EXISTING ZONING.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE MIXED USE CORE IS VERY SIMILAR TO UM, BN AND R M P U D ZONING.
THAT'S THE YEAH, THE MPU UUD IS WHAT REFERRED TO EARLIER.
SO IN THE EXPANDED MIXED USE CORE, HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT WE END UP WITH TRUE MIXED USE? AND I'LL ALSO SAY, SO THAT TAKES ME TO MY SECOND POINT.
THERE IS A PAGE IN HERE AS WELL WHERE WE TALK ABOUT, UM, HOUSING TYPES AND FORMS. THEY'RE ALL, THE CLOSEST THAT WE GOT WAS UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS A DUPLEX AND THEN A FORM OF CLUSTER HOUSING.
I'M WORKING TO GET THE EXACT PAGE NUMBER.
OH, IT'S ON THE BACKSIDE PAGE 24 OF YOUR PLAN.
SO IT TALKS ABOUT A TOWN HOME, A DUPLEX, A SINGLE FAMILY CLUSTER, AND THEN A SINGLE FAMILY LARGE LOT.
SO THERE'S NOTHING IN HERE THAT, IN THIS VISION DOCUMENT THAT CALLS THAT OUT AS FAR AS APARTMENT STYLE LIVING.
SO THERE'S, THE TOWN HOMES ARE KIND OF A, LOOKS LIKE A TRIPLEX ALMOST, IS THAT IT'S JUST THREE IN A ROW.
YOU KNOW, YOU TYPICALLY SEE THREE TO FOUR OR SO IN A ROW.
AND I COULD, COULD I BUILD HALF A DOZEN OF THOSE IN A CLUSTER? WELL, LET, LET ME LEMME PREFACE THIS TOO.
NOTHING HERE, YOU STILL WOULD HAVE TO REZONE TO YOUR CURRENT ZONING MM-HMM.
SO ANYTHING THAT'S IN HERE DOESN'T OPEN UP THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO WHAT WE SAY IN HERE UNLESS YOUR CURRENT ZONING ALLOWS IT.
SO YOU CAN STILL ONLY DO WHAT'S ALLOWED IN THE M P U D UM, OR WHAT'S ALLOWED WITH YOUR CURRENT ZONING DESIGNATIONS.
THE ONE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE DID MAKE IS TO CONSIDER YOUR MPU REDUCING THE TOTAL SQUARE ACREAGE REQUIRED FOR YOUR M P UUD SO THAT YOU CAN DO THE SMALL SCALE MIXED USE THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IN A VILLAGE CORE.
CUZ RIGHT NOW IT'S A VERY LARGE SIZE OF, OF PROPERTY YOU HAVE TO HAVE AND IT'S, WE PUT A LOT OF THOUGHT INTO THAT.
UM, SO, SO IT COULD GO THAT WAY, BUT SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE TO BUY A LARGE, LARGE AREA TO TRY AND AND CREATE A VILLAGE OUT THERE.
AND THEN THERE'S PHASING IN THERE AS WELL.
SO YOU DON'T BUILD THE MULTI-FAMILY FIRST AND WAIT 20 YEARS TO DO THE COMMERCIAL.
SO IT WAS VERY INTENTIONAL, VERY THOUGHTFUL.
AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE DOESN'T OPEN UP A LOOPHOLE TO ALLOW DUPLEX, TRIPLEX TOWN HOMES STANDALONE.
YOU DON'T OURSELVES IN THE MIXED USE CORE AND NOT END UP WITH MIXED USE.
SO HERE YOU, YOU, BECAUSE YOU DON'T REZONE TO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, YOU REZONED TO A ZONING DISTRICT AND UNTIL THAT CHANGES, UH, WHAT WHAT YOU HAVE IS WHAT YOU HAVE.
AND UH, YOU'RE NOT DOING A WHOLE LOT TO ASSUAGE MY FEARS HERE BECAUSE THINGS COME IN ONE AT A TIME.
NEXT ONE COMES IN THE NEXT DAY.
CAN I BUILD A TRIPLEX? SURE, GO AHEAD.
WHERE DO YOU SAY YOU'RE OKAY? YOU'RE NOT OKAY.
I MEAN THE IDEA BEHIND THE M P U D WAS ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO DO MIXED USE COME IN, DO IT THIS WAY AND WE END UP WITH A MIXED USE AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE NOTHING IN THIS PLAN OPENS UP THAT DOOR TO WHERE IT'S NOT TRULY A MIXED USE AT THE END OF THE DAY.
CUZ IF THEY COME IN INCREMENTALLY WITH SMALLER DEVELOPMENTS AND THEY'RE NOT PHASED AND WHATNOT, YOU COULD END UP WITH JUST ROOFTOPS IN THE MIXED USE CORE.
AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T END UP THAT CUZ THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY TO BE MADE THAT WAY, PUT UP A LOT OF MULTIFAMILIES AND SELL 'EM REAL QUICK AND YOU'RE GONE.
AND RATHER THAN TRYING TO FIND A, A TENANT.
I'M NOT GETTING A WHOLE LOT OF COMFORT.
BUT, UM, I MEAN THAT, THAT IS A REGULATORY PIECE WHERE
[01:20:01]
WE WOULD DETERMINE, UM, SIZE SPACE LIMITATIONS, UM, THROUGH YOUR ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.THAT WOULD BE A NEXT STEP IN THIS PROCESS.
AND AGAIN, OUR, OUR GOAL IS TO TRY TO CREATE A VISION DOCUMENT.
SO YOU KNOW, WE, WE ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY AND AS AN APPLICATION COMES IN, IT SEES THE LIGHT OF DAY AND IT GOES TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, IT COMES TO THE BOARD AND WE GET TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, VERY INTENTIONAL DISCUSSION ON THIS.
AND STAFF DOES A VERY GOOD JOB NOW OF WORKING TO GUIDE APPLICATIONS AND MAKING SURE WE'RE BALANCING THINGS.
YOU KNOW, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS PLAN WILL ALSO OFFER STAFF THE ABILITY TO DO, IS TO WORK IN THE THINGS THAT WE HEARD AS RECURRING THEMES THROUGH THE PUBLIC INPUT PROCESS ABOUT HAVING SOME RECREATIONAL AMENITIES, HAVING MORE OPEN SPACE, HAVING SOME AVAILABILITY FOR SERVICES OR CONNECTIVITY.
AND SO AS APPLICATIONS COME FORWARD, WE CAN HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS AS WELL BECAUSE THAT'S LISTED IN HERE, BUT IT'S NOT LOCKED IN.
YOU KNOW, THERE IS A TRAIL SHOWN, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN IT HAS TO BE THERE.
I MEAN I GUESS IF IT, IF THERE WERE SOME LANGUAGE THAT SAID, UM, NO STANDALONE MULTIFAMILY BECAUSE IT'S GOTTA BE PART OF A MIXED USE, OTHERWISE YOU COULD END UP WITH STANDALONE MULTIFAMILY.
AND ONE AT A TIME COMES IN, YOU GET A SERIES OF 'EM.
AND ANYWAY, JUST I'M THINKING OUT LOUD HERE.
WE'RE IN A WORKSHOP BOUNCING IDEAS AROUND.
UM, AND I JUST WANTED, WE, WE SPENT AN AWFUL LOT OF TIME ON JUST MAKING SURE THE M P UUD WAS CRAFTED IN A WAY THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY THERE WAS VERY FEW WAYS TO GAME THE SYSTEM AND WE WOULD END UP YEAH.
WITH A VISION ACTUALLY THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE VISION THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
SO, SO THIS DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING WITH THE M PUD AND THE ONLY, SO WHAT THIS DOES IS SAY IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO AN M P U D, THEY NEED TO DO IT IN THE MIXED USE CORE OR THE MIXED USE COMMERCIAL.
THOSE ARE THE ONLY SPOTS THAT THEY'RE REALLY ALLOWED, UM, BASED OR OR ENCOURAGED BASED ON THE LAND USE DESIGNATION.
THAT WOULD BE FOR AN M P UUD, WE'VE TO BE IN ONE OF THOSE TWO WITH A MEET ALL CRITERIA.
WHAT ABOUT A TRIPLEX TOWN HOME THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THAT'S ON PAGE WHATEVER.
UM, CAN THAT BE A STANDALONE AND NOT BE A MIXED USE? WE HAVE, UH, I MEAN THOSE WOULD AGAIN, WHAT WHAT WE'RE SPEAKING ABOUT IS ZONING.
AND SO THIS IS JUST LAND USE, SO NOT A REGULATORY DOCUMENT.
IT, IT DOES NOT HOLD WEIGHT IN TERMS OF WHAT IS ALLOWED AND WHAT'S NOT.
IT JUST ALLOWS SOMEBODY TO COME FORTH WITH A PROPOSAL TO.
SO I THINK THE ANSWER, IF I'M HEARING IS IF YOU CAN DO IT NOW YOU CAN.
IF YOU CAN'T DO IT NOW, YOU CAN'T.
IS THAT, THAT'S EXACTLY CORRECT.
DOESN'T CHANGE AT ALL WHAT YOU CAN DO.
THIS ALLOWS SOMEBODY TO PROPOSE SOMETHING.
SO THE, I I AGREE THAT IF YOU CAN DO IT NOW, THE PROPOSAL IS YOU CAN DO IT THEN.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE REVISITING WHAT WE HAVE NOW TO SOLVE WHATEVER PROBLEMS MIGHT EXIST.
NOW'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY IS THERE A LOOPHOLE OR NOT? THAT'S ALL.
MR. PEARSON, IF I MAY, I'M OVER HERE TOO.
WHERE'S THAT COMING FROM? WHAT, WHAT, OKAY.
WHAT I'M HEARING IS NO, YOU COULDN'T DO STANDALONE M P U D, I MEAN STANDALONE RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE IT'S, THAT'S ZONING.
MAYBE THERE'S A LOOPHOLE WHERE WE'VE SEEN SOME STANDALONE TRIPLEXES IN OUR P U D.
SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE IS R P U D ALLOWED IN THE MIXED USE COURT? I THINK NO.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY I COULD THINK OF IT.
BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME TOWNHOUSES IN OUR P U D UM, FOR INSTANCE, THE TOWN HOMES DOWN BY THE RICHMOND COUNTRY CLUB AND THE CREEKMORE AREA.
THOSE WERE DONE BY WRIGHT, IS THAT RIGHT? BUT AS FAR AS THE M P D, I THINK THE CLEAR ANSWER IS NO.
AGAIN, I DON'T WANNA PUT TRUE OF A PURSUIT HERE.
NO, IT'S, I MEAN, AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE THE ZONING CASE IN FRONT OF ME OR THE MAP IN FRONT OF ME, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WAS AN R THREE THAT DID ALLOW FOR THAT OR THE RO THAT ALLOWED FOR IT.
SO I THINK IT WAS ALLOWED BY, UM RIGHT.
BUT IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY TRANSLATE TO HERE THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES, YOU KNOW, FOR, UM, THROUGH THE R P U D AND OTHER AREAS IN THE, UM, IN THE, IN THE CENTERVILLE AREA THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT ANSWER.
AGAIN, I DON'T WANNA THANK YOU.
APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR, YOU KNOW, STEPPING UP TO THE MICROPHONE WHILE THE OTHER TWO MUCH.
UH, BUT MR. CHAIR, BACK TO YOUR POINT, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT'S ALLOWED NOW IS GONNA BE ALLOWED, BUT UM, IF WE'RE TRYING TO REACH A CONSENSUS ON THE VISION, A CONSENSUS ON THE VISION, THAT'S ONE THING PERHAPS.
AND WHEN WE GET TO THE NEXT STEPS ARE GONNA GO FORWARD TO, TO CHALLENGE OR TASK THE STAFF AS THEY GO DOWN TO THE NEXT LEVEL AND PUT TOGETHER SOME DETAILS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CLOSE THAT LOOPHOLE.
AND THERE ISN'T A LOOPHOLE TO BE ABLE TO DO JUST A ROW OF, OF RESIDENTIAL MULTIFAMILY LOAN BROAD.
CAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE VISION THAT WE'RE ALL LOOKING FOR WHEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT MIXED USE.
[01:25:01]
NEXT STEPS KIND OF, BUT I WOULD CHALLENGE AND TASK FOLKS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT LOOPHOLE ISN'T OPEN.SO LET ME ASK STAFF AND QUESTION, UM, MS. AYAS WHERE, WHERE I STARTED THIS MEETING.
UM, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE WHAT YOU NEED NOW FROM A CONSENSUS PERSPECTIVE FROM THE BOARD?
UM, I, I I DO THINK THAT, UM, HAVING A SPECIFIC CONSENSUS ON THE ITEMS. SO JUST SO THAT I AM CLEAR, THERE IS A CONSENSUS ON THE SOUTH OF BROAD PORTION THAT WAS MIXED USE TRANSITION BECOMING PART OF THE CORE? YES, I THINK SO, YES.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, JUST SO THAT I'M CLEAR, I FEEL SO BAD DOING THIS.
UM, SO THAT I'M CLEAR AND THAT WE CAN WORK ON A PATH FORWARD MM-HMM.
I THINK, I THINK THAT'S A HUGE DESIRE.
LASTLY, UM, ALSO MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE BEING MINDFUL OF CLEARLY CALLING OUT OUR FUTURE STUDY AREA AS THAT'S EVOLVING AS WELL AS MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE NOTATING THAT GREENWAYS AND ROADS WITHIN THE SMALL AREA LIMITS ARE CONCEPTUAL ONLY SEE ANY DETENTION THERE.
OH, AND THEN I FORGOT THE LAST ONE TO PUT TO BED.
SORRY, I'M GONNA WORK THAT ONE IN AGAIN TOO.
SO MAYBE NOW SOMEONE WILL LAUGH.
UM, THE LODGING WITHIN APPROPRIATE SCALE, WHICH ALREADY WE HAVE THE, THE HEIGHT AND IT'S, IT'S JUST A WAY OF STATING IT.
SO IT'S REINFORCED WITHIN THE TEXT OF THE DOCUMENT AS WELL AS WITHIN THE TABLE? YES.
BASED ON THAT, UM, I DO THINK THAT STAFF HAS THE ABILITY TO, UM, WORK WITH THE CONSENSUS PROVIDED TO ADDRESS WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM OPEN HOUSE AS WELL AS PUBLIC HEARING.
SO I HEARD, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THIS WAS DEFERRED, SO I MIGHT LOOK TO OUR DEPUTY COUNTY ATTORNEY.
UM, WHAT IS THE DESIRE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION? WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO ANSWER THAT OR MS. JACKSON? WELL, WHOEVER, WHOEVER CAN ANSWER YES.
SHE'S HAVING A, WHAT WAS THE QUESTION ABOUT THE SETTING A DATE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION? YES.
SO WHAT'S THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S DESIRE TO, TO HEAR THIS NEXT? WHEN CAN THEY HEAR IT NEXT? I I DO BELIEVE, UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS A JULY 6TH WORK SESSION WHERE THEY COULD OFFICIALLY SET A DATE, BUT THERE'S NOTHING THAT PRECLUDES US THIS EVENING FROM DISCUSSING A CONSENSUS ON A DATE.
SO THAT STAFF AS WE WORK THROUGH THE CHANGES, CAN ALSO PREPARE PUBLIC NOTICES AS NECESSARY.
UM, SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS BECAUSE THIS IS A WORK SESSION WE CAN'T VOTE ON, WAIT, TYPICALLY YOU WOULD NOT VOTE ON A DATE.
DATES AND STAFF IS THE ONE THAT BRINGS THINGS TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, I, I KNOW WE'VE HAD SOME LOOSE DISCUSSIONS ON TRYING TO PULL SOME DATES AND I HAVE VERIFIED THAT STAFF AND OTHER RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE JULY 24TH OR JULY 25TH, WHICH IS, UH, AFTER THE JULY 6TH WORK SESSION.
I THOUGHT SOMEBODY HAD A CONFLICT ON MONDAY.
I I THINK WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE 27TH AND THAT WAS, IT WAS, UH, FIVE PEOPLE ARE AVAILABLE ON TUESDAY.
SORRY, FIVE ARE AVAILABLE ON TUESDAY POTENTIALLY, AND FOUR WOULD BE AVAILABLE ON THE 24TH.
SO AGAIN, STAFF'S JUST LOOKING FOR A CONSENSUS ON THAT.
SO THEN WE CAN WORK, UM, ON TARGETING WHEN WE HAVE TO DO PUBLIC NOTICES.
CAUSE I WILL SAY THE LAW DOES CHANGE JULY ONE FOR PUBLIC NOTICE REQUIREMENTS.
AND IF THEY HAD THAT ON THE 27TH, THEN WE WOULDN'T DO 2020 FIFTH.
WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HEAR THAT IN AUGUST.
YOU WOULD, THE EARLIEST YOU COULD HEAR IT AS A BOARD WOULD BE AUGUST 7TH.
THAT IS THE EARLIEST YOU COULD HEAR IT BASED ON PUBLIC NOTICE REQUIREMENTS.
AND IS THAT A REGULARLY SCHEDULED BOARD DATE? NO, THAT IS THE WEEK AFTER.
AGAIN, THAT IS THE EARLIEST YOU COULD HEAR IT.
IT'S THE FIRST, THE FIRST THING.
SO THE WEEK WOULD BE THE EIGHTH, THE WEEK OF AUGUST 7TH.
SO I STARTED ON MY WEEK ON A MONDAY, NOT A SUNDAY.
CAUSE THAT'S WHEN I COME INTO WORK.
SO AUGUST 1ST IS OUR BOARD MEETING AND THEN,
[01:30:01]
AND THEN WE COULD MEET THE SEVENTH OR THE EIGHTH AFTER THAT OR ANYTIME, MA'AM.ANYTHING ELSE FOLKS? I OFFICIALLY ADJOURN THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
AND I WILL ADJOURN OUR BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING
[VII. Adjournment: The Board of Supervisors will adjourn to Monday, July 3, 2023, 2PM]
UNTIL JULY 3RD.[VIII. Adjournment: The Planning Commission will adjourn to Thursday, July 6, 2023, 7:00]
ARE ADJOURNED.