[00:00:01]
TO HIS HOUSE IN A FLAT.HE LIKE, I KNOW YOU, IT'S A 6,000 CAR I 19.
HE SAID, WELL YOU AIN'T, THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.
BUT WHEN I WAS CONSULTING ON THE ROAD, I WAS MAKING 75 AN HOUR PLUS.
SO EVERYTHING I EAT, EVERYTHING I READ, EVERYTHING I LAUNDRY, EVERYTHING I COOK, YOU NAME IT, I GOT, SO I WAS MAKING SIX, FIVE.
SO TO MAKE THAT I'M, THEY KNOW HOW TO STRUCTURE SO THEY GET ALL THE PROBLEM.
YOU SPEND ALL THIS TIME YOU CAN TO LUNCH.
I NOT CALL TO ORDER THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR NOVEMBER 21ST, 2024.
MS. PARKER, DO WE HAVE A QUORUM? YES SIR.
MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE A QUORUM.
PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AND REMAIN STANDING FOR THE INDICATION ALLEGIANCE, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
ANY FATHER, WE THANK YOU FOR THE MANY BLESSINGS THAT WE ENJOY HERE IN GWIN COUNTY AND AS WE BEGIN ANOTHER PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, WE ASK FOR WISDOM TO HELP US TO GUIDE THIS COUNTY INTO THE FUTURE THAT YOU HAVE IN STORE FOR US.
GIVE US COURAGE TO STAND FOR LIBERTY AND JUSTICE WHEN WE, WHEN THE CHOICES ARE DIFFICULT.
WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED BLESSINGS.
WE HAVE AN OVERFLOW ROOM, ROOM TWO 70 IF YOU'D RATHER IT'S RIGHT DOWN THE HALL AND THE FIRE MARSHAL'S GONNA MAKE IT AT SOME POINT SO YOU CAN WATCH FROM IN THERE AND IF YOU'RE WAITING TO SPEAK YOU CAN THEN AFTER SOME PEOPLE HAVE LEFT, COME IN HERE AND SEE.
SIT SO THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO COME UP AND SPEAK.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO KEEP YOU FROM DOING THAT, BUT WE DO HAVE TO WATCH THE ROOM CAPACITY AND THE UNIFORM GUY IN THE BACK.
OKAY, HAS EVERYONE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ THE MINUTES FROM THE OCTOBER 17TH 24 MEETING? COMMENTS? I KNOW IT WAS A TERRIBLY LONG.
LEADING COMMENTS OR MOTION TO APPROVE.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE PREVIOUS MINUTES.
I'LL SECOND MS. PARKER? YES SIR.
UM, IF YOU WISH TO DISCUSS ANY ITEMS NOT LISTED ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK.
OKAY, SO ANOTHER ONE, CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT.
UH, MS. PARKER, ARE THERE REQUESTS TO DEFER? YES SIR.
STAFF IS REQUESTING DEFERRAL OF CU 20 24 19 APPLICATION BY MARY ELIZABETH AND JIMMY ORO REQUESTING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CUP FOR TWO SHORT-TERM RENTALS, UNHOSTED, AND A PUBLIC ASSEMBLY PLACED ON 58.3 ACRES AT 2371 RIVER ROAD WEST ON TAX MAP NUMBER 54 3 0 C.
THE PROPERTY IS OWNED AGRICULTURAL LIMITED A TWO.
THE CUP IS REQUIRED BY COUNTY ZONING ORDINANCE SECTION 15 1 12 IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTIONS 15 2 80 5G AND 15 2 90.
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DESIGNATES THIS AREA AS RURAL ENHANCEMENT AREA.
UM, AND FOR THAT DEFERRAL REQUEST WE WILL NEED A MOTION.
[00:05:01]
AND IT'LL BE THE DECEMBER 19TH TO DEFER CU 20 24 0 0 0 1 9 TO THE DECEMBER 19TH, 2024 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.THE MOTION TO DEFER PASSES ON A FIVE OH VOTE.
THIS CASE WILL BE HEARD BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON DECEMBER 19TH, 2024.
AND WE DO HAVE A CHANGE TO THE ORDER OF THE PUBLIC HEARINGS.
WE HAVE AN ADDITIONAL DEFERRAL FOR CU 20 24 20.
THE APPLICANT'S ROGEL AND MARTA VINCENT ARE REQUESTING DEFERRAL OF THIS APPLICATION, UH, TO AMEND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CUP UM, CASE CU 20 18 11 TO ADD HOME-BASED BUSINESS AND TO INCREASE THE PERMITTED SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THE DETACHED ACCESSORY FAMILY HOUSING UNIT ON 11.38 ACRES AT 3 7 5 SONGBIRD LANE ON TAX 9 58 8 0 2 C, THE PROPERTY IS ZONED AGRICULTURAL LIMITED A TWO.
THE CUP IS REQUESTED BY COUNTY ZONING OR REQUIRED BY COUNTY ZONING ORDINANCE SECTION 15 1 12 IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 15 2 85 A.
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DESIGNATES THIS AREA AS SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL LOAD DENSITY AND THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING DEFERRAL TO THE DECEMBER 19TH, 2024 MEETING AS WELL.
I MAKE A MOTION TO DEFER CU 20 24 0 0 0 2 0 TO THE DECEMBER 19TH, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
THE MOTION TO DEFER PASSES ON A FIVE OH VOTE.
THIS CASE WILL BE HEARD BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON DECEMBER THE 19TH, 2024.
OUR FIRST PUBLIC HEARING ITEM IS IN DISTRICT ONE CU 20 24 21 APPLICATION BY LESTER AND KIMBERLY ROBBINS REQUESTING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, CUP FOR AN ACCESSORY FAMILY HOUSING UNIT DETACHED ON 20 ACRES AT 5 3 4 4 DUVALL ROAD ON TAX MAP NUMBER 1 1 0 22 F THE PROPERTY IS OWNED AGRICULTURAL GENERAL A ONE.
THE CUP IS REQUIRED BY COUNTY ZONING ORDINANCE SECTION 15 1 0 2 IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 15 2 85 A.
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DESIGNATES THIS AREA AS RURAL ENHANCEMENT AREA.
GOOD EVENING, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION FOR THE RECORD.
I'M A PLANNER WITH THE COUNTY BEFORE USE AN APPLICATION, UH, BY LESTER AND KIMBERLY ROBBINS FOR CONDITION USE PERMIT FOR DETACHED ACCESSORY FAMILY HOUSING UNIT.
THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 5 3 4 4 DUVALL ROAD AND DISTRICT ONE.
THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED ALONG THE COUNTY BORDER WITH LUVANA COUNTY.
THE PROPERTY, UH, PART OF THE PROPERTY WITHIN GLAND COUNTY IS OUTLINED AND RED.
THE PROPERTY IS ZONED A ONE AGRICULTURAL GENERAL.
THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES ARE ALSO ZONED A ONE INCLUDING THE PROPERTIES IN FLUVANNA COUNTY.
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DESIGNATES THIS PROPERTY IN THE SURROUNDING AREA AS RURAL ENHANCEMENT AREA.
PROPERTY IS ABOUT 40 ACRES IN TOTAL.
20 ACRES ARE IN GOLAND AND ABOUT 20 ARE IN LUVANA.
THE, UH, EXISTING RESIDENCE IS LOCATED IN GLAND COUNTY.
THERE ARE A FEW, UH, ACCESSORIES, RESIDENTIAL AND AGRICULTURAL STRUCTURES.
UH, PLEASE NOTE THAT, UH, THIS APPLICATION, UH, CONTAINS A 10 YEAR RENEWAL, UM, AS PART OF THE CUP CONDITIONS WITH THE IMPOSED CONDITIONS.
THIS USE IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UH, COMMITTEE MEETING WAS HELD ON SEPTEMBER 23RD.
UH, ONE CITIZEN ATTENDED AS WELL AS COMMISSIONER KIMBERLY AND SUPERVISOR CHRISTIE.
UH, THERE IS DISCUSSION OF THE FAMILY REQUIREMENT, DRIVEWAY AND ROAD STANDARDS, EMERGENCY ACCESS AND CONDITION USE, PERMIT RENEWALS AND ENFORCEMENT.
UH, THE NEIGHBOR WAS SUPPORTIVE OF THE APPLICATION.
STAFF HAS PROPOSED OUR STANDARD CONDITIONS FOR THIS USE.
THE FIRST THREE CONDITIONS GOVERN THE USE OF THE PROPERTY AND THE STRUCTURE.
UH, CONDITIONS FOUR AND FIVE ARE REGARD TO SAFETY.
UH, STAFF HAS PROPOSED A 10 YEAR RENEWAL PERIOD.
UM, THIS REFLECTS RECENT CHANGES AS STAFF PRACTICE WHEN PROPOSING EXPIRATION PERIODS FOR ACCESSORY FAMILY HOUSING UNITS, UM, AND THE RESULT OF THE LAST BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING.
UH, FINALLY, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION QUESTIONS.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO SPEAK? OKAY.
[00:10:01]
IS NOT GOING TO SPEAK, UM, PUBLIC HEARING.WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO COME UP AND SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS APPLICATION? WE'LL CLOSE THAT QUESTION TO ANYBODY.
ARE THEY PROPOSING TO SHARE THE DRIVEWAY TO THIS ACCESSORY UNIT? SORRY, I WAS GONNA ASK THE APPLICANT, BUT UH, YES.
UM, IT WILL SHARE THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY.
UM, THERE WILL BE NO NEW ACCESS POINT.
ANY MOTION? UM, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE CU 2 0 2 4 0 0 0 2 1.
UM, UH, RECOMMEND FOR APPROVAL.
SORRY, IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, MR. MCLAUGHLIN? AYE.
THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL PASSES ON A FIVE A VOTE.
THIS CASE WILL BE SCHEDULED FOR PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON JANUARY 7TH, 2025 WITH A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
OUR NEXT PUBLIC HEARING ITEM THIS EVENING IS DISTRICT TWO RZ 20 24 10 APPLICATION BY DENNIS LEROY HOLMES REQUESTING TO REZONE 12.74 ACRES FROM AGRICULTURAL GENERAL, A ONE TO AGRICULTURAL GENERAL, A ONE WITH PROFFERS TO SEEK EXCEPTIONS TO THE COUNTY ZONING ORDINANCE.
SECTION 15 2 3 4 3 C ONE REQUIREMENT FOR A PUBLIC ROAD AND THIS SECTION 15,353 B ONE AND B TWO REQUIREMENTS FOR LEFT AND RIGHT TURN LANES AT ZERO TERRY LANE ON TAX MAP NUMBER 44 0 C ZERO.
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DESIGNATES THIS AREA AS RURAL ENHANCEMENT AREA.
MR. CHAIRMAN FOR THE RECORD, MY NAME IS CARRIE RAGLAN.
I'M A PLANNER WITH THE COUNTY AND WILL BE PROVIDING THE STAFF PRESENTATION FOR THIS APPLICATION.
THIS APPLICATION IS WITHIN DISTRICT TWO AND IS A REQUEST FROM THE A ONE DISTRICT TO THE A ONE DISTRICT WITH PROFFERED CONDITIONS.
THE APPLICANT REQUESTS IN THE FORM OF PROFFERS TO OBTAIN A WAIVER FROM THE PUBLIC ROAD STANDARDS, WHICH ARE REQUIRED FOR FIVE OR MORE LOTS.
THE PROFFERS ARE ALSO REQUEST RELIEF FROM LEFT AND RIGHT TURN LANES THAT ARE REQUIRED TO EXTEND A PRIVATE ROAD TO SERVE ADDITIONAL LOTS.
THE INTENT IS TO ALLOW FOR A FOUR LOT SUBDIVISION ALONG A PRIVATE ROAD.
THE VICINITY MAP ON THE LEFT OF YOUR SCREEN INDICATES A SUBJECT AREA OUTLINED IN RED.
THE AERIAL PHOTO ON THE RIGHT INDICATES A SUBJECT PROPERTY ALSO OUTLINED IN RED, WHICH IS LOCATED AT THE TERMINUS OF TERRY LANE.
TERRY LANE IS LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF ROCK, ROCK CASTLE ROAD AND IS APPROXIMATELY TWO MILES SOUTH OF ITS INTERSECTION WITH ROUTE SIX.
THE ZONING MAP ON THE LEFT DEMONSTRATES THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AND ADJACENT PROPERTIES AS THE A ONE ZONING DISTRICT.
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN MAP ON THE RIGHT DEMONSTRATES THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AND ADJACENT PROPERTIES AS RURAL ENHANCEMENT.
THE SUBJECT PARCEL IS A PARENT TRACT AND HAS THREE DIVISIONS AVAILABLE.
TERRY LANE CURRENTLY IS A PRIVATE GRAVEL ROAD WITHIN A 50 FOOT ACCESS EASEMENT, WHICH PROVIDES ACCESS TO ROCK CASTLE ROAD.
ROCK CASTLE ROAD IS IDENTIFIED AS A MAJOR COLLECTOR WITHIN THE MAJOR THOROUGH FOR PLAN.
THE S SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED APPROXIMATELY A THIRD MILE NORTH NORTHWEST FROM THE INTERSECTION WITH ROCK CASTLE ROAD AND THE EXISTING ROADWAY WAS BUILT OUTSIDE OF THE RECORDED EASEMENT.
YOU CAN SEE BY THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT, THE RECORDED EASEMENT IS HIGHLIGHTED IN PURPLE AND THE ROADWAY AS IT EXISTS CURRENTLY IS IDENTIFIED BY THE YELLOW LINE.
YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT BEGINS TO DIVERT RIGHT ABOUT THE SECOND OR THIRD LOT SERVED.
CURRENTLY THERE ARE EIGHT LOTS SERVED BY TERRY LANE.
TWO OF THOSE LOTS ARE VACANT, ONE BEING THE SEPTIC PROPERTY AND THE OTHER, THE PROPERTY IMMEDIATELY TO THE SOUTH.
ON THE LEFT IS A PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN FROM TERRY LANE FACING EAST ONTO ROCK CASTLE ROAD.
THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT IS LOOKING WEST ALONG TERRY LANE.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS NOT VISIBLE FROM
[00:15:01]
THIS IMAGE.AS NOTED PRIOR, THE BUILT ROADWAY DIVERTS FROM THE ESTABLISHED EASEMENT.
SO THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS NOT CURRENTLY ACCESSIBLE BY CAR.
OUR SITE VISIT DID REVEAL THAT THE TERRAIN IS QUITE HILLY AND THERE APPEARS TO BE A SMALL STREAM ALONG THE EASEMENT THAT'S NOT DOCUMENTED ON OUR CURRENT GIS RECORDS.
THE IMAGE SHOWS ROUGHLY WHERE THE ROADWAY BEGINS TO DIVERT FROM THE EASEMENT ON THE RIGHT.
THIS SLIDE IS A VERY HIGH LEVEL VIEW OF THE APPLICATION.
THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING A FOUR LOT SUBDIVISION, WHICH WOULD CREATE THREE NEW LOTS.
ALTHOUGH THE PARCEL HAS DIVISION RIGHTS, THE SUBDIVISION CANNOT BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY DUE TO THE ACCESS MANAGEMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS.
THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT CURRENTLY REQUIRES PUBLIC ROAD ACCESS WITH BOTH A LEFT AND RIGHT TURN LANE.
HOWEVER, WAIVERS FROM THE CODE CAN BE GRANTED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE REZONING REQUEST, WHICH IS THE APPLICATION BEFORE YOU.
THE PROFFERED CONDITIONS IF ACCEPTED, WOULD ALLOW FOR THE SUBDIVISION OF THE NINTH, 10TH, AND 11TH LOTS TO ACCESS ROCK CASTLE ROAD THROUGH TERRY LANE AS A PRIVATE ROAD.
THE IMAGE ON THE LEFT IS THE APPLICANT'S PROFFERED CONCEPT PLAN, WHICH IS EXHIBIT A WITHIN THE STAFF REPORT.
THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT IS THE SAME PLAN WITH THE FOCUS ON THE SUBJECT PROPERTY.
IT SHOWS THE PROPOSED LOTS AS WELL AS THE EXTENSION OF TERRY LANE BY ABOUT 400 FEET AND DEMONSTRATES THE REQUIRED FIRE APPARATUS TURNAROUND IN THE FORM OF A CUL-DE-SAC.
THIS SLIDE IS JUST AN ADDITIONAL LOOK AT THE ROAD.
STANDARD REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THE CODE.
MAJOR SUBDIVISIONS OF FIVE OR MORE LOTS OR FAMILY DIVISIONS OVER SIX LOTS ALL REQUIRE PUBLIC ROAD FOR ACCESS.
HOWEVER, THROUGH A ZONING REQUEST, THOSE PRIVATE ROADS CAN BE PERMITTED.
PRIVATE ROADS THEN MUST MEET COUNTY STANDARDS WHICH ARE LISTED ON THE SCREEN.
THIS SLIDE IS A SUMMARY OF THE TURN LANE REQUIREMENTS.
SUBDIVISIONS OF FIVE OR MORE LOTS REQUIRE TURN LANES ONTO ARTERIO OR COLLECTOR ROADS.
UH, WE DISCUSSED EARLIER THAT ROCKCASTLE ROAD IS A MAJOR COLLECTOR ROAD.
ENTRANCES ONTO COLLECTOR ROADS REQUIRE RIGHT TURN LANES, ENTRANCES ONTO COLLECTOR ROADS WITH 10 OR MORE LOTS, ALSO REQUIRE LEFT TURN LANES.
HOWEVER, THESE REQUIREMENTS MAY BE WAIVED WITH THE REZONING REQUEST LISTING.
A FEW CONSIDERATIONS WITH THIS APPLICATION IF APPROVED, THE APPLICANT MUST PROVIDE AN ENGINEERED PLAN OF DEVELOPMENT OR A POD PLANS ARE REVIEWED BY COUNTY STAFF AS WELL AS VDOT.
VDOT MAY HAVE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS AND ADDITIONAL PERMITS FOR STORM WATER MAY BE REQUIRED.
STAFF AT THIS TIME CAN'T FULLY COMMENT ON WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED UNTIL THE PLANS ARE IN FRONT OF US.
ITEMS SUCH AS SITE DISTANCE AND LAND LAND DISTURBANCE MAY TRIGGER ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
ALSO, A MINIMUM 10,000 GALLON CAPACITY CISTERN MUST BE INSTALLED TO SERVE THE SUBDIVISION FOR FIRE PROTECTION.
THIS IS REQUIRED WITH THE CREATION OF THE 11TH LOT.
ANY FEATURE SUBDIVISIONS ALONG TERRY LANE WILL ALSO REQUIRE RELIEF FROM THE PUBLIC ROAD IN TURN LANE REQUIREMENTS.
SO IF THERE WERE ANY, UH, NEIGHBORS OF MR. HOLMES OR ANY FAMILY MEMBERS ALSO LOCATED ALONG TERRY LANE THAT WISHED TO SUBDIVIDE IN THE FUTURE, THEY WILL ALSO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
A COMMUNITY MEETING WAS HELD ON SEPTEMBER 14TH.
THERE WERE 17 CITIZENS IN ATTENDANCE, MOSTLY, UH, FAMILY MEMBERS AND NEIGHBORS OF MR. HOLMES COMMISSIONERS.
KIMBERLY AND KOWALSKI WERE ALSO PRESENT.
COMMENTS PROVIDED WERE NOT SO MUCH RELATED TO THE APPLICANT, BUT WERE DIRECTED TO STAFF AND RELATED TO THE REZONING PROCESS, THE SUBDIVISION PROCESS TIMELINE FOR ULTIMATE APPROVAL, MR. HOLMES' PROJECT AND HOW THE PROPOSAL WOULD AFFECT FUTURE SUBDIVISIONS ALONG TERRY LANE.
THERE WERE NO CONCERNS RAISED FOR THE APPLICANT'S SPECIFIC REQUEST AND STAFF HAS RECEIVED ONE LETTER.
IN SUPPORT OF THIS APPLICATION, THE APPLICANT HAS PROFFERED CONDITIONS ON THE PROPERTY.
IN SUMMARY, THESE ARE A CONCEPTUAL PLAN WHICH WAS DEMONSTRATED EARLIER IN THIS PRESENTATION AS EXHIBIT A LANGUAGE WHICH PROVIDES WAIVERS FROM BOTH THE PUBLIC ROAD AND TURN LANE REQUIREMENTS, AN EXTENSION OF TERRY LANE, OF THE TERRY LANE EASEMENTS AND REALIGNMENT OF THE EXISTING ROADWAY WITHIN THE EASEMENT.
THE APPLICANT HAS PROFFERED TO PROVIDE AN ENGINEERED ROAD PLAN.
THE PLAN MUST MEET PRIVATE ROAD STANDARDS AS WELL AS FIRE ACCESS REQUIREMENTS.
[00:20:01]
APPLICANT HAS ALSO PROFFERED MAINTENANCE OF TERRY LANE TO RETAIN THE PRIVATE ROAD STANDARDS AS OUTLINED IN THE CODE MAINTENANCE WILL BE PROVIDED BY THE SUBJECT PROPERTY OWNER OR FUTURE PROPERTY OWNERS FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THE TERRY LANE EASEMENT.MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS CONCLUDES THE STAFF PRESENTATION.
THE APPLICANT IS HERE AND CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS BUT DOES IS NOT PREPARED TO SPEAK OTHERWISE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME AT THIS TIME? THANK YOU.
HAVE QUESTIONS? ONE OF THE, UH, ONE OF THE WAIVERS IS FOR THE, THE PUBLIC ROAD REQUIREMENT, UH, THAT IS WITHIN OUR ORDINANCES.
UM, AND YOU SAY THAT VDOT MAY PLACE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS? MM-HMM.
SO THE, THE PUBLIC ROAD STANDARDS WITHIN THE CODE ARE BASED OFF OF MORE OR LESS VDOT STANDARDS.
HOWEVER, FOR ENTRANCES ONTO EXISTING, UH, VDOT ROADS, THEY MAY REQUIRE, UH, SITE DISTANCE OR THEY MAY REQUIRE COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE PAVING A CERTAIN AREA OF TERRY LANE JUST AS IT ENTERS ROCK CASTLE ROAD AT THIS TIME.
STAFF ANTICIPATES THOSE SORTS OF REQUIREMENTS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE COMMENT FROM VDOT AT THIS TIME.
THEY CAN'T COMMENT UNLESS THEY HAVE THE ACTUAL PLANS IN FRONT OF THEM.
AND WILL VDOT BE EXPECTING US TO HAVE CHERRY LANE AS A PUBLIC ROAD AND UP TO PUBLIC ROAD STANDARDS? NO.
AS, AS A PRIVATE ROAD, VDOT WILL WILL NOT HAVE ANY, UM, REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED ON THE ROAD WITHIN THE COUNTY JUST FOR THE ENTRANCE ONTO THEIR ROAD.
SO IF WE DECLARE IT A PRIVATE ROAD, YES, SIR.
AND IT IS CURRENTLY AN EXISTING PRIVATE ROAD, RIGHT? DOES IT, GO AHEAD.
UM, ACCESS ROAD DOES NOT LINE UP WITH EXISTING EASEMENT MM-HMM.
AND WILL THAT AFFECT, UM, SOME OF THE OTHER LANDOWNERS OR ANY OF THEIR ACCESS POINTS OR ANYTHING? IT WILL AFFECT THEIR PROPERTY AS TERRY LANE IS AN EASEMENT THAT TRAVERSES THEIR PROPERTY, BUT LEGALLY AS THE EASEMENT IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED ACROSS THE OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS, UM, THE, THE ACCESS DOES, UH, ALREADY EXISTS LEGALLY FOR HIM TO DO THAT.
UM, UM, SO THE EASEMENT IS THERE JUST THEY WENT OFF THE PROGRAM? YES, SIR.
UM, THE MENTION OF THE CISTERN MM-HMM.
IS THERE A LOCATION SPECIFIED FOR THAT YET OR WHERE, OR IS THAT JUST TO BE DETERMINED BASED UPON FUTURE MM-HMM.
THE CODE SAYS IT SHOULD BE GENERALLY LOCATED ALONG THE CENTER, BUT WE HAVEN'T IDENTIFIED THAT AT THIS POINT.
WE, UH, EXPECT THAT TO BE SATISFIED WITH THE POD.
I THINK YOU MENTIONED THIS, BUT I JUST WANTED CLARIFICATION.
UM, THE EXISTING ROAD, IS IT UP TO OUR CODES IN TERMS OF FIRE AND RESCUE DURING THE SITE VISIT? STAFF APPROXIMATED, IT'S PROBABLY ABOUT 12 FEET WIDE, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT WIDER IN SOME PLACES.
UM, SO BASED ON THAT ALONE, IT DOESN'T CURRENTLY MEET OUR STANDARDS, SO, SO THE ENTIRETY OF THIS APPLICATION IS BASICALLY THE ROAD? YES, SIR.
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? ANYBODY ELSE? DO YOU KNOW IF THERE'S ANY ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERN ABOUT GOING OVER THE STREAM YOU MENTIONED WHILE CORRECTING TERRY LANE? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
AS I MENTIONED, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS IN STAFF'S RECORDS AHEAD OF TIME TO BE ABLE TO COMMENT, BUT THAT WOULD BE ADDRESSED WITH THE POD REQUIRE, UH, WHEN THAT IS SUBMITTED FOR, UH, REVIEW AND IT WOULD BE REVIEWED FOR THOSE CONCERNS.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LET SPEAK? NO SIR.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR DO ANYONE? YEAH.
UH, WE'LL OPEN UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS ISSUE? OKAY.
SAYING NO ONE, WE'LL CLOSE THAT COMMENT TO ME, IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF WORK IF THE IT DOES,
[00:25:01]
UH, IN TERMS OF, UH, BRINGING, PUTTING IN A PRIVATE ROAD, CORRECT? YEAH.AND, AND ACTUALLY THE ONLY RELUCTANCE I HAVE IS THAT THERE'S SO MANY PROPERTIES FED BY THIS PRIVATE ROAD THAT, BUT THEY'RE ALL FAMILY, CORRECT? UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE.
DO WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE MOSTLY, OR ALL FAMILIES? DO YOU, UH, THE, THE NEW ONES OR ALL THE PROPERTIES ALONG THE LINE? I THINK CARRIE KNOWS THAT THEY'RE NOT ALL OWNED BY THE SAME FAMILY.
EVERY PROPERTY ALONG THAT ROAD, THERE ARE FAMILY ALONG THE ROAD, BUT I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT THEY ALL MEET OUR DEFINITION OF FAMILY WITHIN THE CODE.
WE HAVE NOT ASKED MR. HOLMES TO CERTIFY THAT.
I'M NOT SURE THAT NEEDS, BUT THEY'RE ALL FAMILY MEMBERS? YES, BUT, AND, AND EVEN FAMILY SUBDIVISIONS ARE SIX, I BELIEVE, BEFORE, UH, A, UH, BEFORE A PUBLIC ROAD IS, IS NEEDED.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY ONLY RIGHT RELUCTANCE IS WE'RE GONNA HAVE HOW MANY PROPERTIES? IS IT NINE OR 12? UH, THERE, THERE'S CURRENTLY EIGHT LOTS.
SO WITH MR. HOLMES'S APPLICATION, THERE WOULD BE 11.
AND THEN HE WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE AS WELL FOR THE UPKEEP OF THE ROAD? YES.
HE HAS PROFFERED MAINTENANCE OF THE ROAD AS THE, THE, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY OWNER OR ANY FUTURE PROPERTY OWNERS.
IF HE WERE TO SUBDIVIDE THE PROPERTY, THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS WOULD ALSO, UM, BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE THE MAINTENANCE AND IF THOSE LOTS WERE SOLD IN THE FUTURE.
AND HOW WOULD THAT WORK IF HE RIGHT NOW IS THE SOLE OWNER AND CARETAKER OF THAT ROAD, BUT THEN DECIDES TO SELL A PIECE? HOW DOES THAT WORK OUT WITH THAT LANDOWNER? DO THEY FORM AN HOA, DO THEY JUST TALK ABOUT IT AND SIGN THE DOCUMENT OR? SO IF, IF THE PROPERTY IS SOLD, THE PROPERTY CONDITIONS DO RUN WITH THE LAND, BUT WITHIN THE PROFFERS IT DOES STATE THAT IF THERE IS A MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT, UH, RECORDED IN THE FUTURE THAT KEEPS THE EASEMENT TO THE STANDARDS THAT WE REQUIRE, THEN THAT CAN ESSENTIALLY GET THAT PROPERTY GUNNER OFF THE HOOK.
AND YOU SAY CURRENTLY THE PRIVATE ROAD DOES NOT MEET THE STANDARD WE REQUIRE? YES, SIR.
BUT IT WILL HAVE TO, TO PASS? YES.
IN ORDER FOR THE SUBDIVISION TO OCCUR, HE WILL HAVE, THE ROAD WILL HAVE TO MEET OUR STANDARDS FOR THAT TO BE APPROVABLE.
UM, I DID VISIT THE, THE ROAD TERRY LANE, UM, AND SAT AT THE END FOR QUITE A WHILE.
UM, I WILL SAY FROM A SIGHT LINE POINT OF VIEW, THERE IS, SEEMS LIKE THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE, THERE'S NOT ANY BLIND SPOTS FROM WHAT I COULD SEE, UM, AS FAR AS WAVING THESE TURN LANES.
UM, HOWEVER, ROCK CASTLE IS, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S BUSY.
SO, UM, BUT FROM WHEN I VISITED, I DID NOT SEE WHERE ANY KIND OF BLIND SPOTS OR THERE WASN'T ACCESS OR A, UM, SUFFICIENT SIGHT LINES ON BOTH SIDES.
THE TURN LANES ARE, UH, NOT REALLY A CONCERN TO ME EITHER, SO.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT, EXCUSE ME.
UM, THE COMMISSIONER IS RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF REZONING RZ 2 0 2 4 DASH 0 0 0 1 0 WITH THE PROPER CONDITIONS AS AMENDED.
MR. UM, COSBY, LET ME JUST CLARIFY IF I COULD, I DIDN'T HEAR AN AMENDMENT.
IS IT, IS IT APPROVED AS PRESENTED? I, I DIDN'T CATCH AN AMENDMENT BEING MADE TO IT.
YOU'RE MAKING A MOTION TO APPROVE? YES.
THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL PASSES ON A FIVE OH VOTE.
THIS CASE WILL BE SCHEDULED FOR PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON JANUARY 7TH, 2025, WITH A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
OUR NEXT PUBLIC HEARING ITEM TONIGHT IS IN DISTRICT FIVE, RZ 20 24 9, APPLICATION BY HH HUNT MOSAIC, LLC REQUESTING A PROPER AMENDMENT TO ADOPT A NEW CONCEPTUAL PLAN FOR 7.513 ACRES AT THE INTERSECTION OF MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD AND
[00:30:01]
BROAD BRANCH DRIVE AND THE ADDITION OF THREE LOTS ON TAX MAP NUMBER 58 54 0 4 0.THE PROPERTY WAS PART OF CRAWFORD CONCEPTUAL PLANS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WITH CASES RZ 20 17 1 AND RZ 20 17 1 A.
THE PROPERTY IS ZONED RESIDENTIAL PLAN UNIT DEVELOPMENT RPUD WITH PROFFERED CONDITIONS.
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DESIGNATES THIS AREA AS PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU MS. PARKER.
GOOD EVENING, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD.
I'M THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.
AS MS. PARKER STATED, THIS IS A, UH, REALLY A REZONING WITH THE PROFFER AMENDMENT RELATED TO A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED CASE, UM, TO PLAN TO ADD ADDITIONAL THREE LOTS.
UM, THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED, UH, IN THE WEST CREEK DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS GENERALLY, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE RED CIRCLE IN THE SOUTHEASTERN PORTION OF THE COUNTY.
AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, THERE HAS BEEN SOME CLEARING ON THE PROPERTY, BUT THERE IS CURRENTLY NO DEVELOPMENT OR IMPROVEMENT WITHIN THIS PARCEL.
UM, THE PARCEL ITSELF, AGAIN, IS OUR PUD.
UM, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CALLS FOR THIS AREA TO BE PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
SO THE PROPOSAL BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS A REASONING WITH PROFFERS OF 7.513 ACRES.
UM, PROFFER ONE IS PROVIDED WITH REFERENCE THAT THERE SHOULD BE GENERAL CONFORMANCE WITH THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN THAT YOU SEE OUTLINED ON THE RIGHT HAND, ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SCREEN.
THESE ARE THE THREE ADDITIONAL LOTS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED.
THIS IS MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD THAT GENERALLY RUNS, THAT'S THE SPINE ROAD FROM MOSA MOSAIC CREEK.
UH, THE PROPERTY WOULD HAVE BUFFER ADJACENT TO IT AS REQUIRED BY THE RPUD ZONING DISTRICT.
THE REMAINDER OF THE PROPERTY IN THE BACK WOULD BE OPEN SPACE AND THERE'S A 200 FOOT BUFFER GENERALLY ADJACENT TO 2 88 PROFFER TWO, UM, I MEAN, SO I'LL SAY PROFFER.
ONE DOES PRECLUDE DEDICATION OF ADDITIONAL RIGHTS OF WAY OR ROAD CONSTRUCTION INTO THE PROPERTY.
PROFFER TWO DOES STATE THAT THE PROPERTY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE MOSAIC CREEK DEVELOPMENTS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WITH THE ORIGINAL REZONING AND THE SUBSEQUENT QUIT, UM, AMENDMENTS.
SO SOME BACKGROUND ON THIS PROPERTY HERE, IT DOES HAVE RPD ZONING THAT WAS OBTAINED THROUGH ZONING CASE RS 8 2 0 1 7 0 0 0 1.
AND THAT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED WITH 15 PROFFERED CONDITIONS.
THERE WAS AN ADDITIONAL PROFFER AMENDMENT, UH, THAT OCCURRED LATER THAT WAS AN AMENDMENT TO THE EXISTING PROFFER, EIGHT OF THE ORIGINAL CASE.
AND THAT RELATED TO DENSITY AND REALLY THE CHANGE IN THE MIX OF RATIO OF TOWNHOUSES AND, UM, SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT, UH, BY THE DEVELOPER.
UM, AND DECREASED THE DENSITY TO 508 RESIDENTIAL UNITS OVERALL HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY HIGHER THAN THAT.
UH, EACH OF THE ZONING APPROVALS, UM, INCLUDED THE MOST.
UM, IMPORTANTLY THE ORIGINAL ONE INCLUDED PROFFERED CONCEPTUAL PLANS.
UM, THOSE CONCEPTUAL PLANS ARE PROVIDED EACH SHOW, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS 7.513 AS UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY.
SO WHAT I'VE PROVIDED HERE ON THE SCREEN IS THE CONCEPTUAL PLANS THAT CAME FORWARD WITH THE ORIGINAL, UH, REZONING CASE TO RPD.
UM, AND OUTLINED IN THERE ON EACH OF THESE, UM, ONES, UH, IT'S IN THE PURPLE BOX TRYING TO HIGHLIGHT EXACTLY WHERE THE PROPERTY WAS.
UH, THERE WERE SOME GENERAL DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS, BUT YOU KNOW, MOSTLY THE DEVELOPMENT IS PRETTY, UH, SIMILAR.
UM, I WOULD NOTE THAT IN THIS, UH, THE THIRD CONCEPTUAL, IT DID HAVE A RED CIRCLE AROUND THAT AREA BECAUSE THERE WAS DISCUSSION DURING THE REVIEW OF THE CASE AND IN THE HEARING ABOUT SORT OF THE, UM, FUTURE OF THIS, UH, THIS PROPERTY HERE.
SO THIS, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THIS PROPERTY AND ALL OF MOSAIC IS WITHIN AN AREA WE CALL PRIMARY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AS WELL AS ALL THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES SURROUNDING THIS PROPERTY.
THOSE ARE AREAS WE CONSIDER ARE CRITICAL FOR THE LONG-TERM ECONOMIC FOUNDATION OF THE COUNTY.
THESE ARE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE SIGNIFICANT UTILITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT.
THESE ARE AREAS THAT THE EXPECTATION AND ANY USE THAT COMES FORWARD PROPOSE, PROPOSES OR DEMONSTRATES A POSITIVE IMPACT TO THE COUNTY'S TAX BASE, UM, IN AREAS THAT REALLY ATTRACT AND RETAIN CORPORATE INVESTMENT AS WELL AS JOBS.
UM, THE PROPOSAL AND THE PROPERTY DOES NOT COMPLY WITH COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
IT IS NOTED OF COURSE, THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS DID PREVIOUSLY APPROVE THE MCO WEST CREEK DEVELOPMENT WITH CERTAIN PROFFERS TO INCLUDE QUALITY PROFFERS AND IMPROVEMENTS OF, UH, INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND THE, THE USE OF WATER AND SEWER PROFFER ONE DOES PRECLUDE THE ACCESS FROM EXISTING ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE TO THE ADJACENT PROM ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROPERTIES.
AND AS WELL, THE PROPOSAL DOES LIMIT THE ACCESS TO A FUTURE ADJACENT, UM, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROPERTIES AND MAY RESTRICT FUTURE INVESTMENT IN THE AREA THAT THE CONFERENCE IS PLAN ANTICIPATED.
[00:35:01]
HAVE UP HERE ON THE SCREEN ON THE FAR LEFT, IT REALLY SHOWS THE ZONING, UH, THE MOSAIC, UM, DEVELOPMENT IN THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES.UM, MOSAIC IS THE AREA THAT'S GENERALLY IN A YELLOW ORANGE HERE.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S A SUBJECT PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET.
THE PROPERTIES ARE, UM, ZONED M1.
AND THESE ARE, UH, THE PROPERTY SPECIFICALLY FOR WHICH THE CONCERN WAS ABOUT A PROVIDING A SUB ROAD IS, UM, AGRICULTURAL.
CURRENTLY THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AS YOU CAN SEE, DOES DEMONSTRATE AND PROVIDE THAT ALL THIS AREA THROUGH HERE IS PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
SO THE ZONING ORDINANCE DOES PROVIDE UNDER A 15,352 B, THAT WHEREVER PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT ABUTS LAND SUITABLE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, A SUB ROAD TO THE ABUT PROPERTY SHOULD BE, MUST BE PROVIDED WHERE THE COUNTY DETERMINES THAT THE THE ACCESS TO BE AS NECESSARY.
UM, IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE THOUGH, BOTH CONFERENCE AND PLAN AND ORDINANCE, ORDINANCE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT BE A STUB ROAD PROVIDED TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY.
UM, IT SHOULD BE NOTED OF COURSE THROUGH THE PROFFER THAT'S PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT.
THE REQUEST WOULD MODIFY THE ZONING ORDINANCE REQUIREMENT AND PRECLUDE FUTURE ACCESS TO ADJACENT PROPERTIES TO OR THROUGH THIS PROPERTY.
THERE WAS A COMMUNITY MEETING HELD BACK IN AUGUST.
I THINK SEVERAL OF YOU WERE THERE.
I SEE YOUR NAME UP ON THE BOARD.
UM, AND THERE WAS ALSO APPROXIMATELY 120 CITIZENS.
UM, THE COMMENTS THERE RELATED TO LIKE, WHEN WE HAVE THESE TYPE OF COMMUNITY MEET, UH, QUESTIONS ABOUT WHO'S DEVELOPING THE LOTS, WHAT'S THE IMPACT ON THE OVERALL HOA OPEN SPACE AND DUDES DUES FOR THE DEVELOPMENT, THE IMPACT POTENTIAL FROM THE ACCESS, UM, FROM THE ADJACENT PROPERTY? WHAT'S THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE H ADJACENT PROPERTY AND TRAFFIC IMPACTS RESULTING FROM THE POTENTIAL ACCESS? UM, AS PLANNING COMMISSION HAS SEEN AND STAFF HAS RECEIVED, UM, THERE HAS BEEN APPROXIMATELY 130 EMAILS AND THE NUMBER COULD CHANGE.
WE RECEIVED ADDITIONAL ONES TODAY, UM, OF SUPPORT TO THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST.
UM, AGAIN, THEY'RE SUPPORTING THE PROPOSAL THAT WOULD PROVIDE THE PROFFER NOT TO ALLOW FUTURE ACCESS THROUGH THIS PROPERTY.
UM, STAFF HAS RECEIVED ONE LETTER OR EMAIL FROM REPRESENTATIVE OF THE EFFECT, UM, ADJACENT PROPERTY.
WHO, WHO IS IN OPPOSITION TO THIS CASE? UM, I HAVE PROVIDED THE PROFFERS, UM, UP ON THE SCREEN FOR THIS CASE.
UM, REALLY THE KEY ELEMENTS IS TYP.
I MEAN, THE FIRST ELEMENTS IS TYPICAL WHEN SOMEONE PROFFERS A CONCEPTUAL PLAN, THEY SAY THEY WILL CONFORM TO THAT, UM, AND DEMONSTRATES THAT THEY SHOULD SUBSTANTIAL SUBSTANTIALLY CONFORM TO THAT.
AS WE GO THROUGH FUTURE PROCESSES, THIS WILL REQUIRE PRELIMINARY PLAT TO CHANGE THE ORIGINAL, UM, UH, THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED TENANT.
AS FOR THIS PROPERTY, UM, AS WELL AS RE UH, FINAL PLAT THAT NEEDS TO BE RECORDED FOR THE PROPERTY.
UH, PART OF THE CONDITIONS, AGAIN, IT, IT STATES STRICTLY FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF NO DOUBT, NO ADDITIONAL ROAD RIGHT AWAY SHALL BE DEDICATED AND NO ADDITIONAL ROAD SHALL BE CONSTRUCTED ON THE PROPERTY THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS APPLICATION.
AND THEN AGAIN, PROPER TWO TALKS ABOUT THIS.
THIS PROPERTY HERE WILL CONTINUE TO BE IN CONFORMANCE TO THE REMAINDER OF THE, UM, MOSAIC CREEK, UH, PROFFERS EXCEPT FOR PROFFER ONE, WHICH GENERALLY REFERRED TO A CONCEPTUAL PLAN.
SO FOR THIS PROPERTY, THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN YOU SAW TONIGHT WILL REPLACE THE, UM, APPROVED CONCEPTUAL PLAN.
UM, STAFF IS OF COURSE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE.
THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE IS HERE AND THEY DO HAVE A PRESENTATION AS WELL.
SO THERE WAS A, A STUB ROAD REQUIRED WHEN THEY WERE DEVELOPING MOSAIC.
SO FOR THIS RIGHT, FOR THE ORIGINALLY THIS PROPERTY, I MEAN THIS PROPERTY THROUGH TENTATIVES AND THROUGH THE ORIGINAL ZONING CASES DID NOT SHOW THIS PROPERTY AS DEVELOPED.
UM, DURING THE ZONING, THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS, BUT NO SUB ROAD WAS PROVIDED.
UM, THIS PROPERTY WAS LEFT AS AN IN AN UNDEVELOPED STATE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THIS PROPERTY, BUT MOSAIC, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, THIS SUBJECT PROPERTY, BUT MOSAIC WAS REQUIRED TO PUT A SUB ROAD INTO THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES.
AND THEY ARE, UH, DESIGNATED PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, CORRECT? THERE ARE, THERE ARE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SUB ROADS IN HERE.
I BELIEVE THERE'S THREE, I THINK THEM, SOME OF THOSE HAVE TO BACK ME UP ON THAT TO DIFFERENT PROPERTIES.
UM, DURING PREVIOUS REVIEWS, TENTATIVE REVIEWS, UM, NOTHING SHOWED AS DEVELOPMENT ON THIS PROPERTY.
UM, SO THERE WAS NO STU STUB ROAD PROVIDED TO THIS PROPERTY ITSELF, TO THIS, THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY.
I'M SORRY, WHICH IS TO THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY.
BUT IT, SO IT WAS THOUGH THE COUNTY STAFF'S, UH, INTENTION FOR ANY DEVELOPMENT DONE ON THE ADJACENT
[00:40:01]
PROPERTY TO ACTUALLY EMPTY THROUGH MOSAIC.SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE, WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WE ALSO LOOK AT THE MAJOR THOROUGHFARE PLAN.
THERE HAS BEEN RECOMMENDATIONS.
IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE REASON WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE SIS STUDY IS TO REALLY FIGURE OUT HOW WE'RE GONNA SERVE ACCESS IN THE FUTURE, UM, FOR THESE PRO THESE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AMONG OTHER PROPERTIES WITHIN THE GENERAL WEST CREEK 2 88, UM, UH, AREA, BASICALLY FROM HOCKET OVER TO HENRICO.
UH, IF YOU LOOK BACK IN THE OLD, UH, PLAN WHERE WE DID OUR MTP, THERE'S GENERALLY A CIRCLE THAT SHOWS THIS AREA, THIS GENERAL AREA THAT WE LOOKED AT BEFORE IN THAT BROADER, THAT PURPLE BOX I SHOWED YOU OVER THE COMP PLAN.
HOW DO WE DO THE INFRASTRUCTURE? HOW DO WE PROVIDE DIFFERENT ROAD NETWORKS TO SERVE DIFFERENT AREAS? UM, YOU KNOW, STAFF, WHEN WE EVALUATE AN APPLICATION THAT COMES FORWARD, UM, WE'LL ALWAYS LOOK AT IT IN LIGHT OF WHAT THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN NEEDS OR LOOKS FOR, AS WELL AS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLANS CALLS FOR DEVELOPMENT AND LOOK FOR OPPORTUNITIES FOR PROPERTIES TO BE SERVED.
AND IF I UNDERSTAND IT PROPERLY, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE A A PROPER IS BEING SUGGESTED THAT DENIES CERTAIN THINGS HAPPEN.
IS THAT TYPICAL OF A PROFFER OR DO THEY USUALLY OFFER UP SOMETHING? IT'S, IT'S NOT VERY COMMON.
MOST OFTEN A PROFFER IS COMING FORWARD AND THEY'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING THAT'S ABOVE AND BEYOND THE ORDINANCE OR SOMETHING THAT'S SORT OF BEEN NEGOTIATED.
UM, OR SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IS RECOMMENDED.
THAT, THAT'S WHAT I, I'M JUST, IT'S UN IT'S UNUSUAL.
UM, IT HAS BECOME MORE COMMON IN RECENT YEARS TO REALLY DO SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY, YOU'RE ASKING FOR SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE ORDINANCE STATES.
FOR THAT, UM, TERMINOLOGY WISE, SOME FOLKS REFER TO IT A NEGATIVE PROFFER, BUT IT'S REALLY, THEY'RE ASKING FOR IT ORDINANCE EXCEPTION THROUGH A PROFFER.
TO CLARIFY, UM, THIS, THE, THE VACANT PROPERTY THAT CURRENTLY HAS NO ACCESS TO IT, IS THERE NO OTHER ACCESS? THERE ARE NO OTHER ROADS, THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO GET TO IT? THIS IS IT? OR IS THIS JUST THE BEST OF WHAT IS OUT THERE? RIGHT.
UM, THIS PROPERTY CURRENTLY AS IT SITS, UM, IS DOES NOT HAVE ANY OTHER A ACCESSES.
SO IF YOU SEE HERE, THIS IS THE PARCEL ITSELF.
IT'S THERE, IT'S ABOUT, I THINK I SAID 85 ACRES, AND IT'S EVERY 80 ACRES THROUGH THERE.
THIS AREA, UM, THERE, HERE'S OUT OF WEST CREEK, THERE'S NO ACCESS PRECLUDED FROM THAT.
UM, THE PROPERTY THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT WAS, I MEAN, REALLY THE, THE PRIMARY IS TO LOOK AT AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET TO BROAD BRANCH DRIVE BECAUSE THAT IS, UM, BASICALLY A COLLECTOR ROAD.
IT'S DESIGNED TO HANDLE ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC.
IT'S BUILT TO, THAT ALSO GIVES, UM, ACCESS TO THE REMAINDER OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND PRIMARILY TO GET TO 2 88, UM, BEING THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS OUR PRIMARY ECONOMIC ELEMENT AREA, JUST BE TO BE AN ECONOMIC DRIVER.
UM, SO THAT, THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING THE STUB.
UM, DOESN'T HAVE TO CONNECT TO BROAD, I MEAN MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD, UM, ANTICIPATED DISCUSSIONS WAS TO TAKE IT OUT IN SOME FORM TO BROAD BRANCH DRIVE.
SO AGAIN, WE JUST LOOK FOR OPPORTUNITIES WHEN YOU SEE A LANDLOCK PARCEL, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU PROVIDE AN ACCESS FOR THAT.
UM, AGAIN, THE APPLICANT DOES HAVE A PRESENTATION.
IF THERE'S NO FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME YEP.
HANS KLINGER, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
I'M WITH HH HUNT THE APPLICANT, SO I APPRECIATE, UH, MR. CASH'S WORK ON THIS.
HE AND I WENT BACK AND FORTH QUITE A BIT OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS TO, UH, TO FINE TUNE THIS CASE.
UH, HE DID A GOOD JOB EXPLAINING THE CASE.
UM, I'LL PROVIDE HOPEFULLY A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED IN HERE, HOPEFULLY TO PAINT THE WHOLE PICTURE.
THAT'S WHEN THE PROPERTY WAS ZONED.
THE ZONING CASE NUMBER SAYS 2017, THAT'S WHEN IT ACTUALLY BEGAN.
WE DIDN'T GET THE ZONING UNTIL, UH, UNTIL 2018.
UM, I WAS INVOLVED WITH THAT CASE AT THAT TIME AND, UH, FAMILIAR WITH THE, THE ISSUES WITH THIS ROAD CONNECTION.
UM, SO WE ZONED IT FOR 520 HOMES AT THE TIME.
[00:45:01]
WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF TOWN HOMES IN THERE.SO WE, WE, WE CAPPED IT AT 40%.
AND, UH, WE OFFERED THREE CONCEPTUAL PLANS LIKE MR. CASH HAD SAID.
UH, AND AT THE TIME THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION.
IF YOU LOOK BACK IN THE RECORD, WHEN THE PERSON IN MY COMPANY WAS STANDING HERE, THERE WAS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS ROAD ACCESS.
WE DID NOT SPECIFICALLY, UH, PROFFER A CONNECTION FROM, UM, MOSAIC OR, OR, UH, BROAD BRANCH DRIVE INTO THESE SOUTHERN PROPERTIES, BUT WE DIDN'T PROHIBIT IT EITHER.
SO IT WAS SORT OF LEFT UP IN THE AIR.
AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.
SO, UH, THE THREE, THE PLEA, THE THREE PLANS THAT WERE PROFFERED, UM, AS MR. CASH HAD SAID, YOU KNOW, EARLY ON IN THE ZONING CASE, YOU DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF DETAILS.
WE HAVEN'T DONE FINAL DESIGN, SO THIS IS OUR BEST GUESS OF HOW THE, THE LOTS WOULD DEVELOP AND SO FORTH.
UM, AND WE, WE SHOWED FIVE, I THINK IF YOU COUNT THOSE UP, THERE'S 520 LOTS IN THERE.
WE DON'T WANNA SHOW MORE THAN THAT, WHICH IS WHY WE DIDN'T SHOW MANY LOTS DOWN IN THE, UH, IN THE TAIL THERE ON THE FAR LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER THERE.
UM, AS WE GET THROUGH DESIGN, WE GET, WE GET APPROVAL FOR ZONING, WE GO THROUGH DESIGN, WE REFINE THE PLAN, AND WE HOPEFULLY IT, IT, IT, UH, CONFORMS TO SOMETHING THAT'S, UM, A REPRESENTATIVE OF THIS.
SO, UH, PROFFER NUMBER TWO WAS ESTABLISHED AT THAT TIME THAT IT DEVELOPED.
THESE, YOU KNOW, THE ESTABLISHED THESE THREE PLANS THAT, UH, WERE IN CONFORMANCE, UM, WITH, WITH THE MAJOR ASPECTS OF THOSE.
SO A, B, AND C ARE, ARE, ARE ONE, TWO, AND THREE.
SO THE, THE ZONING WAS SUCCESSFUL IN, IN 2018.
WE STARTED WORKING ON THE PROJECT, STARTED DOING DESIGN IN 2019.
WE, WE REALIZED WE PROBABLY NEED TO GO BACK AND DO AN ADJUSTMENT ON THE PROJECT.
WE NEEDED A FEW MORE TOWN HOMES.
SO WE, WE UPPED THE NUMBER OF PERCENTAGE TO 44%.
UM, AND WITH THAT, WE CONCEDED TO DROP THE NUMBER TOTAL FROM FIVE 20 TO 5 0 8.
AND, AND AT THE TIME, WE, WE DISCUSSED ABOUT A NEW PLAN ON THIS, AND THAT'S WHAT WAS PRESENTED HERE, BUT WE DID NOT PROFFER THAT AT THIS TIME.
UM, BUT YOU COULD SEE THE, THE LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER THERE DOES SHOW QUITE A FEW LOTS IN THERE THAT, UH, WAS NOT ON THE ORIGINAL PLANS IN 2018.
UH, WE, WE PRESENTED THIS AS, UH, THIS IS OUR PLAN TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY, BUT LIKE I SAID, WE DID NOT PROFFER IT.
THAT'S THE AREA THAT REALLY IS, UH, MOST OF THE CONCERN THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT.
THAT PLAN DEVELOPED INTO OUR MARKETING PLAN.
SO AS THE PROJECT WENT FORWARD AND WE STARTED MARKETING IT TO RESIDENTS, FUTURE RESIDENTS, HOMEOWNERS IN THERE, THIS IS THE PLAN THEY SAW.
SO YOU CAN SEE IN THE LOWER CORNER THERE, IT REPRESENTED THAT PLAN WE HAD JUST, JUST, UH, HAD LOOKED AT.
UM, SO IF YOU BOUGHT A HOME IN MOSAIC AND WENT TO OUR WEBSITE, YOU PROBABLY SAW THIS PLAN AS IS WHAT'S BEING DEVELOPED.
THIS, THIS PLAN, UM, RELOCATED THE CLUBHOUSE MORE CENTRALLY, UM, WAS ONE OF THE BIGGER CHANGES, UH, ON THE PLAN.
SO THAT BRINGS US TO, UM, TO TODAY.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING FOR A PROPER AMENDMENT TO, TO SORT OF CLEAR UP EVERYTHING, UM, WORK WITH MR. CASH, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A CONCEPTUAL PLAN TO REPLACE THOSE, BUT, UM, 497 HOMES OR OR LOTS ARE ALREADY ESTABLISHED, NO SENSE IN REDOING THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN FOR THE WHOLE THING.
IT'S REALLY THESE LAST THREE LOTS.
SO, UM, WE'RE NOT GONNA GO BACK AND TRY TO FINE TUNE THE, THE REST OF THOSE.
SO, UM, WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR NOW IS THESE LAST THREE LOTS TO BE APPROVED.
AND, UM, LIKE I SAID, THE, THE ISSUE WITH THIS ROAD CONNECTION WAS UP IN THE AIR AT THE TIME.
UH, WE WANNA SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT THERE'S NO MORE ROAD ALTERATIONS GONNA HAPPEN, AND WHAT'S BUILT THERE TODAY PRETTY MUCH STAYS.
UH, AND THEN ALL THE OTHER ROAD PRO, ALL THE OTHER PROFFERS IN THE CASE STAY.
SO THIS IS WHAT THE, UM, THE PLAN LOOKS LIKE TODAY.
UM, YOU CAN SEE ALL THE LOTS ARE PLATTED, LIKE I SAID, 497 LOTS ARE ON THE OR ARE PLATTED.
LAST TWO SECTIONS ARE UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW.
AND IT'S THESE THREE LOTS DOWN AT THE BOTTOM RIGHT THAT WE'RE, UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.
SO THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ORIGINAL CONCEPTUAL PLANS.
AND AS MR. CASH SAID, WE SHOWED NO LOTS IN THAT AREA.
THIS WAS ANOTHER ONE FROM 2018.
WE DID SHOW THREE LOTS KIND OF IN THE AREA, BUT NOT, NOT QUITE.
LIKE I SAID, WE WERE MAXING OUT THE LOTS ELSEWHERE, SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO PUT, YOU KNOW, LOTS IN HERE.
AND THEN 2019, YOU CAN SEE WE, WE FILLED THE AREA OUT WITH SOME MORE LOTS IN THERE.
UM, SO WHAT, WHAT ACTUALLY GOT BUILT, UM, YOU CAN SEE THE TOGGLE BACK AND FORTH OF THESE, THAT BOTTOM RIGHT THERE.
YOU CAN SEE THERE'S SOME LOTS ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THE SOUTH SIDE THAT, UH, WERE WERE BUILT AND APPROVED AND CONSTRUCTED.
AND THEN THE YELLOW LOTS ARE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO, UH, TO APPROVE.
THE, UM, ORIGINAL PLAN SHOWED THAT CUL-DE-SAC DOWN THERE WITH EIGHT LOTS.
WHAT WE FOUND IS THE TOPOGRAPHY IS PRETTY CHALLENGING DOWN IN THERE.
IT PROBABLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO BUILD THAT.
SO THE THREE LOTS WILL ACTUALLY MAKE A NICER STREET SCAPE FOR THAT ENTRANCE OFF OF, UH, BROAD BRANCH DOWN THERE.
UM, AS YOU KNOW, WITH ANY C UH, ZONING, UM, ACTION, WE HAVE A COMMUNITY MEETING.
SO AS MR. CASH SAID, WE HAD THAT IN AUGUST, UH, AT THE, UH, CO THE CLUBHOUSE IN, UH, MOSAIC, WE CALL IT THE CONNECTION.
SO THE STAFF REPORT SAID 120, UM, SOME OF YOU WERE THERE.
I, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WAS A LOT MORE THAN THAT.
IT WAS, THERE WAS A PACKED HOUSE, UH, QUITE A FEW PEOPLE.
[00:50:01]
THE INFORMATION THERE THAT WE WANTED THESE THREE ADDITIONAL LOTS.AND THE ISSUE WITH, UH, THE ROAD CONNECTION CAME UP AND, UH, IT WAS OVERWHELMING OPPOSITION TO ANY KIND OF, UH, ADDITIONAL ROAD IN THERE.
INEVITABLY THERE'S SOME PEOPLE COULDN'T MAKE THAT MEETING AND THEY REACHED OUT TO ME AND SAID, HEY, CAN YOU TALK TO US AGAIN? SO WE HAD A, A SECOND MEETING, IT WASN'T OFFICIAL, BUT ENDED UP 60, SOME PEOPLE CAME AND, UH, THE SAME INFORMATION WAS PRESENTED, UH, AGAIN, REALLY STRONG OPPOSITION TO ANY KIND OF ROAD CONNECTION IN THIS AREA.
UM, AT THAT, AT THAT MEETING, I EXPLAINED THAT WE DO HAVE ACCESS POINTS IN THE PROJECT, UH, AND A LOT OF THESE ARE GEARED TOWARDS THE VDOT ACCESS REQUIREMENTS.
SO WITH OUR, UM, TOTAL NUMBER OF HOMES IN HERE OF, UH, ROUGHLY 500, WE'RE BELOW 600 LOTS.
SO THAT REQUIRES FOUR POINTS OF ACCESS.
SO OUR PRIMARY ONE IS UP ON, UH, TUCKO CREEK PARKWAY, THE OTHER ONE DOWN AT BROAD BRANCH, AND THEN WE'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE TWO MORE.
AND THOSE ARE IN THE LAST SECTIONS THAT ARE BEING BUILT RIGHT NOW.
SO THOSE ARE SUB CONNECTIONS TO THE, THE UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES TO THE WEST AND TO THE SOUTH.
AND WHAT STAFF IS REQUESTING US TO ACTUALLY DO A FIFTH CONNECTION THERE, WHICH IS VDOT DOES NOT REQUIRE, UH, DOWN IN THIS AREA.
UM, SO LOOKING AT THIS AREA A LITTLE BIT CLOSER, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE RIGHT AFTER CAPITAL ONE WAS BUILT, AND BROAD BRANCH WAS CONSTRUCTED SO LONG BEFORE MOSAIC WAS, UH, WAS EVEN CONTEMPLATED HERE.
SO YOU CAN SEE THE STUB CONNECTION WAS PROVIDED HERE.
YOU'VE GOT TURN LANES IN THERE, THERE'S A MEDIAN BREAK, YOU KNOW, RIGHT AND LEFT TURN LANES.
AND THAT'S WHERE WE WERE GONNA CONNECT INTO.
UH, AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WHEN, UH, WE BUILT MOSAIC.
SO THAT'S THE, THE ENTRANCE THAT GOT BUILT RIGHT THERE.
UH, AT THE, AT THE PUBLIC MEETING, THE COMMUNITY MEETING PRIOR TO THAT, THE, UM, OWNERS TO THE SOUTH, UH, SHOWED US THIS PLAN.
AND THIS WAS, UM, SORT OF A CRUDE RENDERING OF WHAT COULD BE POSSIBLE WITH ANOTHER CONNECTION IN HERE AND SHOWED THIS TO THE RESIDENTS.
AND, UH, THEY, THEY DIDN'T LIKE THIS VERY WELL.
THE, UM, UH, SO THE, THE REASON WHY THE, THE ONE, UH, MOSAIC CREEK B BOULEVARD WOULD BE WAS, UH, CUL-DE-SAC.
THERE IS, UH, VDOT USUALLY REQUIRES INTERSECTION SPACE.
SO YOU CAN'T HAVE TWO ROADS TOO CLOSE TO EACH OTHER.
SO IF YOU MAKE A DIRECT CONNECTION TO BROAD BRANCH, YOU, YOU PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO CUL-DE-SAC TO O STREET, AND THEY, THEY PROVIDE ANOTHER ACCESS TO GET OVER THERE.
UM, AND THE OWNERS HAD COMMUNICATE US THAT THEY HAD AN ENGINEER DESIGN, ACTUALLY A ROUNDABOUT FOR THAT CONNECTION THERE, WHICH, UM, I HAVEN'T SEEN A DESIGN FOR THAT, BUT THEY INDICATE THERE'S PLENTY OF RIGHT OF WAY TO MAKE A ROUNDABOUT WORK IN THERE.
IF YOU DID TURN LANES FOR A NORMAL INTERSECTION, YOU'D PROBABLY GOING ACROSS THE BRIDGE OVER 2 88 AND, UH, HAVING TO REDO THAT, THE BRIDGE.
UM, SO A CLEANUP VERSION OF THIS LOOKS LIKE THIS.
UM, THIS WAS THE LAST INFORMATION, UH, AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY THAT GLAND HAD, BUT ALL THOSE HOMES ARE BUILT IN THE RED, UH, LOTS THERE.
SO IF YOU, UH, IF YOU TURN ON THE TOPOGRAPHY AREA, NOW THE COUNTY WANTS US TO CONNECT SOMEWHERE INTO BROAD BRANCH DRIVE.
UH, THIS, THIS TOPOGRAPHY GETS A LITTLE DICEY IN HERE.
SO THE, UM, THE SLOPES ON, UH, BROAD BRANCH DRIVE, IT GOES UP AND OVER.
IF YOU'VE DRIVEN THAT ROAD, BROAD BRANCH HAS TO GO OVER 2 88.
SO THERE'S A, IT'S CALLED A VERTICAL CURVE.
SO AS YOU GO UP AND OVER, YOU LOOK AHEAD, IT'S SORT OF, UH, THE ROAD DIVES AWAY FROM YOU.
UH, SO ON THE NORTH THERE'S ABOUT A 45 FOOT FILL, AND ON THE SOUTH THERE'S A 30 FOOT FILL.
UM, AND THERE'S, THERE'S A STREAM THAT RUNS THROUGH THERE AS WELL.
SO IT, THAT'S ONE OF THE PRIMARY REASONS WHY WE'RE NOT DEVELOPING EIGHT LOTS IN THERE.
IT'S JUST NOT SET UP FOR A ROAD CONNECTION.
SO ON, ON PLAN, YOU CAN DRAW OUT INTERSECTIONS AND LOOK AT THAT KIND OF LIKE BACK AT OUR CONCEPTUAL PLANS, BUT IN REALITY, IF YOU TRY TO, TO BUILD A ROAD CONNECTION THROUGH THERE, IT'S, IT'S NOT THE IDEAL PLACE THAT YOU WANNA BUILD.
UM, SO WHAT, WHAT I'M GONNA DO IS SORT OF TAKE A, LIKE A GLOBAL LOOK AT THIS SOLE AREA.
SO THIS IS, UH, IN GREEN IS THE WEST CREEK DEVELOPMENT.
UH, SO WHEN, UM, 2 88 WAS BUILT, ALL THE OTHER ROAD CONNECTIONS, UH, WEST CREEK PARK WAS THEIR FIRST, BUT WHEN 2 88 WAS BUILT, TUCKER CREEK PARKWAY, BROAD BRANCH, ALL THESE ROADS WERE BUILT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT.
UM, AND IT'S, THOSE, THOSE ROADS WERE BUILT AND DESIGNED TO FUNCTIONALLY WORK FOR WEST CREEK DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND AS YOU ALL KNOW, WEST CREEK HAS STARTED TO DEVELOP A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT HASN'T GOT THERE YET.
SO ALL THESE ROADS ARE SIZED FOR THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, I WILL SAY WHERE BROAD BRANCH COMES DOWN INTO WEST CREEK PARKWAY, WHEN WE DID OUR ZONING CASE, WE HAD TO DO A TRAFFIC STUDY, UH, AT THE INTERSECTION.
THIS WAS BEFORE COVID CAPITAL ONE WAS WORKING FIVE DAYS A WEEK, BUT AT THE, IN THE PM PEAK, ALL THE TRAFFIC COMING OUTTA CAPITAL ONE HITS THAT INTERSECTION AT BROAD BRANCH IN WEST CREEK PARKWAY AND IT'S A LEVEL SERVICE F UM, OUR ARGUMENT AT THE TIME WAS, UM, IT'S A LEVEL F, BUT WE DO NOT MAKE IT F MINUS.
I GUESS WHAT YOU WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, SINCE COVID, UM, THERE'S BEEN A LOT MORE WORK, UH, RELAXATION AND SCHEDULE.
SO TRAFFIC HASN'T BEEN A BAD, BUT CAPITAL ONE IS GOING BACK TO A FULL SCHEDULE TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
SO I'D EXPECT TRAFFIC TO, TO KIND OF RAMP BACK UP AGAIN.
UM, WE WERE OFFERING AN AGE RESTRICTED COMMUNITY, SO OUR TRIPS WERE A LOT LOWER
[00:55:01]
THAN A NORMAL, EVEN WITH AN OFFICE USES, WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY TENDED FOR THERE OR SOME INDUSTRIAL USE.SO WE, WE, WE FELT THAT WE WERE MAKING THE, UM, THE, THE SUBJECT AREA A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
SO IF WE ZOOM INTO THIS AREA AND THE PARCEL NUMBER THAT MR. CASH POINTED OUT IS RIGHT THERE.
UM, THIS, THIS WHOLE AREA WAS PART OF THE SIS WHICH I THINK EVERYBODY'S FAMILIAR WITH.
UM, THAT PLAN DETAILED WHAT, WHAT IFS, RIGHT? WHAT, WHAT COULD BE BUILT IN THIS PROPERTY, UH, DENSITY WISE, WHAT THE TAX REVENUES WERE AND SO FORTH.
WHAT THAT PLAN DID NOT OFFER IS A ROAD SOLUTION IN HERE.
UM, SO IT DID NOT CONNECT TO BROAD BRANCH, DIDN'T CONNECT TO ANY, YOU KNOW, BUT, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE HOCKETT IS, HOCKETT ROAD IS TO THE WEST, PATTERSON TO THE SOUTH, UM, PATTERSON CONNECTS DIRECTLY WITH 2 88.
SO ANY KIND OF TRAFFIC, PATTERSON IS DESIGNED TO DO THAT.
MUCH LIKE WEST CREEK HAD TO DESIGN THEIR ROADS TO SERVE THEIR COMMUNITY AND IN THE DEVELOPMENT, AND IT'S, YOU CAN SEE ALL THE VACANT PARCELS THERE.
IT'S NOT BUILT OUT YET, SO THERE'S NOT A LOT OF TRAFFIC YET, BUT THERE WILL BE ONE DAY.
UM, THIS, THIS PROPERTY REALLY NEEDS TO DESIGN THEIR OWN ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE TO MAKE IT WORK WITHIN THEIR DEVELOPMENT AND NOT OVERTAX THE ROADS IN WEST CREEK.
'CAUSE THERE WILL BE A PROBLEM DOWN THE ROAD.
UH, THERE WAS A TALK ABOUT ACCESS TO THESE PROPERTIES.
SO IT IS TRUE, YOU DON'T SEE A ROAD CONNECTION THROUGH THERE, EVEN THOUGH THAT ONE PARCEL IS UP AGAINST 2 88, IT'S A LIMITED ACCESS ROAD, SO YOU CAN'T GET OVER 2 88.
BUT THESE PROPERTIES DO HAVE ACCESS, UM, PHYSICALLY THROUGH, UH, MONON DRIVE AND COUNTRY CLUB LANE.
UM, AND THOSE PROPERTIES WERE PURCHASED.
WITH THAT IN MIND, THAT'S THE ACCESS THROUGH THERE.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THESE ARE ROADS THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED FOR FUTURE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE TRULY NOT.
THEY'VE GOT ACCESS IN, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT LANDLOCKED.
UM, SO BASICALLY THIS BOILS DOWN TO TWO ISSUES THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH THE THREE LOT, UM, UH, THREE LOTS THAT FINALLY BUILT OUT.
SO THAT'LL BRING US TO 500 HOMES IN MOSAIC AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT.
UH, I HAVEN'T HEARD A WHOLE LOT OF OPPOSITION FOR THE THREE LOTS.
IT'S, IT'S KIND OF EXPECTED IN THE COMMUNITY, UH, BUT THE BIGGER ISSUE IS WITH THE ADDITIONAL ROADS, UH, OR THE ADDITIONAL CONNECTION ON THE, ON THE, ON THE PROPERTY.
SO WITH, WITH THAT, UH, PLAT, AND IT'S MORE OF A PLAT THAN A CONCEPTUAL PLAN, BUT WE'RE CALLING A CONCEPTUAL PLAN, UM, UNLIKE 2018 WHERE WE LEFT IT UP IN THE AIR, UM, THE RESIDENTS HAS SPOKEN PRETTY LOUDLY THAT THEY DON'T WANNA SEE ANYTHING HAPPEN TO MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD OR ANY CONNECTION THROUGH THERE WITH, WITH, UH, REGARDS TO OFFSITE TRAFFIC.
SO UNLIKE 2018 CASE, UH, WE ARE SPECIFICALLY SAYING NO MORE, UH, ROADS THROUGH HERE, AND THIS WILL BE THE FINAL BUILD OUT FOR MOSAIC.
ALL THAT OPENS SPACE LAND WILL BE, UH, DEEDED TO THE HOA, SO IT'LL BE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION PROPERTY AND IT'LL JUST BE OPEN SPACE.
SO THAT, UH, CONCLUDES MY, MY TALK.
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
UH, AT ONE POINT YOU SAID THAT, UH, THE STAFF WAS REQUESTING A FIFTH CONNECTION AND YOU'VE GOT FOUR.
I GUESS WHAT I'VE, WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS IT'S NOT REALLY A FIFTH CONNECTION TO YOUR PROPERTIES, RIGHT? IT'S A STAFF'S REQUESTING A CONNECTION TO AN ADJACENT PROPERTY.
IS THAT CORRECT? UH, A ROUNDABOUT WAY.
SO IF, IF I USE THEIR LAND RIGHT THERE.
SO, UM, DEPENDS HOW YOU LOOK AT THE CONNECTION, I GUESS.
IF, IF YOU REPLACE THAT CONNECTION, IT WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME CONNECTION THROUGH YEAH.
YEAH, IT WOULD, IT WOULD STILL SATISFY VDOT REQUIREMENTS.
JUST ANOTHER WAY TO GET AROUND THEN.
BUT, UH, HH HUNT BUILDS, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITIES AND WE, WE ARE PROUD OF THEM.
WE BUILT THIS MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD TO INTERSECT RIGHT THERE, A NICE ENTRANCE, SO FORTH TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS, IS NOT WHAT WE WOULD'VE ENVISIONED FOR THE PROPERTY AND NOT WHAT PEOPLE BOUGHT INTO.
BUT VDOT IS NOT REQUIRING THAT CONNECTION, CORRECT? THAT'S RIGHT.
SO IT'S, UH, THE RULE OF FROM VDOT FOR THE SUBDIVISION ACCEPTANCE STANDARDS IS, UH, UP TO 200 LOTS, YOU NEED TO PUT TWO POINTS OF ACCESS FOR THE NEXT 200.
YOU NEED ANOTHER POINT OF ACCESS FOR THE NEXT 200, YOU NEED ANOTHER.
SO THAT'S FOUR FOR LESS THAN 600 UNITS.
SO VDOT, AS FAR AS VDO T'S DONE, THESE ARE ALL PUBLIC ROADS.
WE'RE WE'RE DONE WITH MAKING CONNECTIONS.
YOU ALSO MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT A CREEK, I THINK IN ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES.
UM, COULD YOU ELABORATE ON THAT? YEAH, SO THIS, THIS, UH, SLIDE RIGHT HERE SHOWS, SO THE, THE FILL SLOPES ON, UH, BROAD BRANCH DRIVE, NOW ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE, BUT, UM, TO, TO BUILD A CONNECTION IN HERE WOULD BE EXPENSIVE.
BEING THAT IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE BRIDGE OVER 2 88.
I DON'T KNOW IF, IF THAT WAS EVALUATED FOR SITE DISTANCE, BUT ANYTIME YOU HAVE INTERSECTION NEXT TO A BRIDGE LIKE THAT, EVEN IF IT'S A TRAFFIC CIRCLE, YOU WORRY ABOUT SITE DISTANCE ISSUES.
UM, THERE'S A VERTICAL CURVE THERE.
IT WORKS FOR TRAVEL, BUT MAYBE NOT FOR INTERSECTIONS.
UM, THE STREAM RIGHT THERE, YOU KNOW, COMPLICATES THINGS.
THE, UM, THE CORE OF ENGINEERS DICTATES WETLANDS AS LONG AS, AS WELL AS DEQ, YOU'D HAVE TO GET A PERMIT TO DO ANY MORE IMPACTS IN THAT AREA.
[01:00:01]
IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT IT MAKES IT A LOT HARDER.IF AS A DEVELOPER LOOKING AT SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WE WOULD AVOID THAT AREA FOR ROAD CONNECTIONS.
THERE'S GOTTA BE SOMEWHERE OTHER EASIER.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE WILL NOW OPEN TO CITIZEN COMMENT.
WELL, THERE'S QUITE A FEW OF YOU, SO PLEASE, AS EXPEDIENT AS POSSIBLE, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE ALL THREE
AND YOU ALSO, YOU CAN ALSO SELECT A SPOKESPERSON FOR EVERY FOUR PEOPLE.
IF YOU HAVE A SPOKESPERSON, FOUR PEOPLE WOULD COME UP, INTRODUCE THEMSELVES AND THEIR ADDRESS AND THEN THAT SPOKESPERSON WOULD'VE 10 MINUTES.
MY NAME IS PATIENCE ARMSTRONG.
I LIVE IN THE MOSAIC NEIGHBORHOOD AT 9 3 4 9 CITRINE RUN.
I SEED MY TIME TO ARNOLD ROSENBERG.
MR. CHAIRMAN, COMMISSIONERS, MY NAME IS RICHARD CONROY.
I LIVE AT 1 5 6 8 0 MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO YIELD MY TIME TO MR. ROSENBERG, OUR ORGANIZATION REPRESENTATIVE.
GOOD EVENING, MR. CHAIRPERSON, UH, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
I LIVE AT 1 5 7 0 5 MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD IN MOSAIC.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MY TIME TO MR. ROSENBERG.
MY ADDRESS IS 7 0 1 0 BISK TERRACE IN MOSAIC.
AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE TO MR. ROSENBERG.
I LIVE AT 93 11 CI RUN, UH, IN ROCO, VIRGINIA.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, YIELD BY THREE MINUTES TO, UH, MR. ROSENBERG, WE ALREADY HAVE FOUR CITIZENS GIVE ALL THE TIME TO MR. ROSENBERG.
SO HE'S GOT THE FULL 10 MINUTES.
GOOD EVENING, MR. CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I LIVE AT 1 4 0 0 3 MOSAIC NOOK IN THE MOSAIC AT WEST CREEK COMMUNITY.
I REPRESENT THAT COMMUNITY AS PRESIDENT OF THE MOSAIC AT WEST CREEK HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION.
AS PRESIDENT OF THE HOAI COME BEFORE YOU REPRESENTING THE OVER 400 CURRENT HOMEOWNERS TO EXPRESS OUR STRONG AND ABSOLUTE SUPPORT FOR THE ZONING MODIFICATION APPLICATION PRESENTED BY HH HUNTS MOSAIC, LLC.
OUR RESIDENTS HAVE REVIEWED THIS REQUEST, ATTENDED THE PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING IN GREAT NUMBERS, AND WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS OUR MAYBE NOT TECHNICAL EXPERTISE IN THIS, BUT AS RESIDENTS OF THE COMMUNITY AND RESIDENTS OF GLAND COUNTY TO OUR RESIDENTS, MANY OF WHOM ARE HERE THIS EVENING.
THIS PROPOSAL IS ABOUT FINALIZING THE DEVELOPMENT PLANS FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND PROTECTING ITS NATURE AND CHARACTER NOW AND IN THE FUTURE.
WE STRONGLY SUPPORT THIS REQUEST AND BELIEVE THAT THIS THREE LOT CONCEPTUAL PLAN AS WELL AS THE REVISION TO PROFFER NUMBER TWO, WHICH STATES THAT NO FURTHER RIGHTS OF WAY AND NO ADDITIONAL ROADS SHALL BE CONSTRUCTED ON THE PROPERTY OTHER THAN WHAT IS SHOWN EXPLICITLY IN THE THREE LOT PLAN ARE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE MOSAIC OF WEST CREEK GLAND COUNTY IS WELL KNOWN FOR PROVIDING ITS CITIZENS WITH A HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE, FOCUSING ON SAFETY AND COMMUNITY WELLBEING.
OUR HOMEOWNERS BELIEVE THAT SUPPORT FOR THIS REZONING AND REVISED PROFIT PROPOSAL BEFORE YOU TODAY JUST DOES JUST THAT.
FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH OUR COMMUNITY, THE MOSAIC WEST CREEK HAS BEEN DESIGNED FOR ACTIVE ADULTS AGED 55 AND OLDER, AND OFFERS A COUNTRY-LIKE ATMOSPHERE THAT IS CLOSE TO SHORT PUMP AND ALL THE AMENITIES IT HAS TO OFFER, MAKING IT APPEALING TO THE RESIDENTS, SEEKING A MORE RELAXED BUT CONVENIENT LIFESTYLE.
THE MOSAIC AT WEST CREEK INCLUDES FEATURES TO ENCOURAGE INTERNAL MOBILITY LIKE WALKING PATHS, NATURE TRAILS, AND ACCESSIBLE SIDEWALKS, WHICH HELP REDUCE THE NEED FOR SHORT CAR TRIPS WITHIN
[01:05:01]
THE NEIGHBORHOOD ITSELF.ADDITIONALLY, THE COMMUNITY AMENITIES SUCH AS ITS CLUBHOUSE, A CENTRAL GATHERING SPACE WITH PICKLEBALL COURTS, A POOL AND ENTERTAINMENT AREAS AIM TO CREATE A SELF-CONTAINED LIFESTYLE THAT MINIMIZES TRIPS OUTSIDE THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR RECREATION OR SOCIAL GATHERINGS, EASING, EASING IMPACTS ON MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD AND THE OTHER ROADS WITHIN THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY.
MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD SERVES AS A VITAL CENTERPIECE FOR THE MOSAIC AT WEST CREEK.
IT HAS BEEN DESIGNED TO BE BOTH SCENIC AND FUNCTIONAL FOR RESIDENTS OF OUR ACTIVE ADULT COMMUNITY.
ITS LAYOUT SUPPORTS SMOOTH LOW VOLUME TRAFFIC FLOW, AND ACCOMMODATES RESIDENTIAL, RECREATIONAL, AND VISITOR USE.
IT'S DESIGN FOSTERS A SENSE OF COMMUNITY LINKING THE DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOOD AREAS WITHIN THE MOSAIC WHILE PROVIDING EASY ACCESS TO NEARBY ATTRACTIONS.
MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD SUPPORTS THE COMMUNITY'S FOCUS ON WALKABILITY AND ACTIVE LIFESTYLES, ENCOURAGING OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES SUCH AS WALKING, BIKE RIDING, AND OTHER OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES, WHICH ALIGNS WITH THE COMMUNITY'S LIFESTYLE AND LIVING APPEAL.
THIS PAST YEAR, MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD PROVIDED THE VEHICLE FOR OUR MOSAIC OLYMPIAD AND THE OLYMPIC VILLAGES, WHICH WE SPLIT OURSELVES INTO.
IT PROVIDED THE VEHICLE FOR OUR OPENING PARADE OF COUNTRIES AND THE CLOSING PARADE OF CHAMPIONS.
NEXT WEEK FOR THE FOURTH YEAR, IT WILL PROVIDE THE VEHICLE FOR OUR 5K TURKEY TROT.
MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD TO US IS NOT JUST A STREET CARRYING VEHICLES.
IT'S PART OF WHAT MAKES THE MOSAIC AT WEST CREEK UNIQUE.
IT'S PART OF WHAT MADE, MADE MOSAIC WEST CREEK IN 2021, THE BEST NEW NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THOSE 55 AND OVERTIRED AS RECOGNIZED BY THE RICHMOND MAGAZINE AND JUST IN 2023.
IT'S PART OF WHAT MADE THE COMMUNITY OF THE YEAR AS AWARDED BY THE HOME VOTERS ASSOCIATION OF VIRGINIA, ADDITIONAL OFFSITE, NON-COMMUNITY RELATED TRAFFIC, WOOD, AND WILL DETRIMENTALLY IMPACT OUR COMMUNITY.
AND ITS AWARD-WINNING NATURE AND CHARACTER.
WE STRONGLY SUPPORT THE REVISIONS PROPOSED BY HH HUNT AND BEFORE YOU TODAY, IT WILL REDUCE THE BUILD OUT NUMBER OF UNITS FROM 508 TO 500, AND WITH PROFFER TWO, IT WILL CALL FOR NO ADDITIONAL RIGHTS OF LAWYER ROADS CONSTRUCTED WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
THE COMMISSION'S SUPPORT FOR THIS REVISED PROFFER WILL PROTECT OUR COMMUNITY FROM FUTURE REQUESTS FOR ROAD CONNECTIONS AND THE INCREASED CONSTRUCTION AND COMMUTER TRAFFIC THAT THEY WOULD INEVITABLY BRING TO MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD, WHICH COULD AND WOULD BE IN OUR WORST AND ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE, PROVIDE A SHORTCUT BETWEEN BROAD BRANCH DRIVE AND TUCKAHOE CREEK PARKWAY FROM NEW RESIDENTIAL OR INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENTS FROM ADJACENT PROPERTIES.
PRELIMINARY PLANS, WHICH YOU'VE SEEN FROM ADJACENT DEVELOPER FROM MOSAIC, FROM MOSAIC POOL CREEK BOULEVARD, SHOW THAT IT WOULD BE DEAD-ENDED WITH A CUL-DE-SAC, ELIMINATING OUR DIRECT ACCESS AND THE DIRECT ACCESS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY TO FROM BROAD BRANCH TO MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
IN LIE OF THE DEVELOP, THE, THE, THE DEVELOPER WOULD CONSTRUCT A CONNECTING LINK FROM MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD, ODDLY ENOUGH, CALLED SHORTCUT ROAD ON THAT PLAN TO A COLLECTOR ROAD THAT WOULD ACCESS BROAD BRANCH BETWEEN OUR CURRENT SOUTHERN ENTRY AND THE BROAD BRANCH BRIDGE OVER 2 88, ALL BECAUSE THE LANDOWNER WAS SUPPOSEDLY TOLD BY VDOT THAT TWO SEPARATE ROAD ENTRIES WOULD BE TOO CLOSE TOGETHER AND WOULD VIOLATE VDO T'S STANDARDS.
SO BY USING MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD TO SOLVE THEIR DEVELOPMENT ISSUE FOR ACCESS TO BROAD BRANCH BECAME A VERY CONVENIENT AND A VERY CHEAP SOLUTION TO THEIR ACCESS ISSUES.
THE MOSAIC AT WEST CREEK HAS ALREADY DONE ITS PART TO MEET COUNTY AND VDOT PLANNING GUIDELINES.
IN ADDITION TO OUR TWO MAIN ENTRY POINTS, THE APPROVED COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PLAN INCLUDES TWO ADDITIONAL SUB ENTRY POINTS THAT ARE NOW UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
THOSE WILL BE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WE UNDERSTOOD WHEN WE BOUGHT IN THE COMMUNITY.
[01:10:01]
HAVE DONE AND ACCEPTED OUR COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY.BUT WE ALL FEEL THAT AT THIS TIME, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
WE, THE RESIDENTS OF THE MOSAIC WEST CREEK BELIEVE THAT THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN AND PROFFER REVISIONS AS PRESENTED ARE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF OUR COMMUNITY AS WELL AS THE GREATER WEST CREEK AREA, AND IN FACT, ALL OF GLAND COUNTY.
BY SUPPORTING THIS REVISED PROFFER, WE CAN ENSURE THE PRESERVATION OF THE LIFESTYLE THAT WE ITS RESIDENTS HAVE COME TO CHERISH AND THAT THE ENTIRE GLAND COUNTY COMMUNITY CAN AND SHOULD BE VERY PROUD OF.
NOW IS THE TIME FOR THIS PLANNING COMMISSION TO SUPPORT ITS COMMITMENT TO PROVIDING THE HIGH QUALITY LIFE FOR ITS CITIZENS THAT FOCUSES ON SAFETY AND COMMUNITY WELLBEING.
WE REQUEST YOUR SUPPORT AND RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN FAVOR OF THIS REZONING REQUEST.
AS SUBMITTED, WE ALL WISH TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING AND FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COMMUNITY.
I DIDN'T ASK IF THERE WERE ANY QUESTIONS.
GOOD EVENING, DON RUNDEL, 92 35 ILIAN PLACE, MOSAIC AT WEST CREEK.
UH, HOW MANY PEOPLE IN HERE ARE GRANDPARENTS? RAISE YOUR HAND.
NOT A DAY GOES BY THAT I DON'T SEE GRANDPARENTS WITH THEIR GRANDCHILDREN ON MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
AND AR MOST IMPORTANT WORD IN ARNOLD'S PRESENTATION WAS SAFETY.
AND I'LL JUST SAY IT AND LEAVE IT AT THAT.
I REPRESENT MY WIFE AND HER FAMILY WHO OWN ONE OF THE ADJACENT PARCELS, AND I SEE MY TIME TO, UH, GIVE HAMPSHIRE OUR REPRESENTATIVE.
UH, UH, MY NAME IS GIFFORD HAMPSHIRE.
I'M WITH THE LAW FIRM OF BLANKING SHIP AND KEITH, AND, UH, I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF SAID OWNERS OF, UH, PROPERTY TO THE SOUTH AND WEST.
I SENT THE COMMISSION A LETTER AND I, I WANNA START BY SAYING THAT LETTER HAD AN ATTACHMENT TO IT, AND I'M HOPING MAYBE THE CLERK CAN PULL IT UP ON THE SCREEN.
I DIDN'T GET IT TO HER IN ADVANCE, BUT I, THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING HERE TONIGHT.
AND THAT IS, WHILE WE DID SHOW THE CONNECTION THAT WAS SH ON THE SCREEN, WE, WE ALSO AT THE AUGUST FIVE MEETING SAID VERY SPECIFICALLY THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.
WHAT WE PROPOSE HAS NO IMPACT UPON MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
IT HAS A DIRECT CONNECTION TO BROAD BRANCH DRIVE.
AND THE REASON IT SHOWS THAT CONNECTION IS BECAUSE THAT IS A CONNECTION THAT HAS BEEN CONTEMPLATED AS A POSSIBILITY SINCE 2018.
EVEN BEFORE THAT, SINCE 2005 WHEN THE, UH, TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT PLAN WAS DEVELOPED AS STATED BY, BY STAFF, THIS WHOLE AREA IS ZONED, EXCUSE ME, IS PLANNED PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S IN A DESIGNATED GROWTH AREA.
THAT IS THE LEGISLATIVE JUDGMENT THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS MADE LONG BEFORE MOSAIC WAS, WAS DEVELOPED.
AND IN THE, AS MR. CASH SAID IN THE 2018 MTP, THERE WAS A BIG RED CIRCLE THAT WAS PUT AROUND THIS AREA BECAUSE IT WASN'T QUITE KNOWN AT THAT POINT IN TIME WHAT THE ROAD NETWORK SHOULD BE.
BUT THE SIGNIFICANT POINT IS THAT SINCE 2005, MOVING ON TO 2018, MOVING ON TO TODAY, THERE'S BEEN NO TALK ABOUT ZONE, UH, PLANNING THIS AREA FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN A DESIGNATED GROWTH AREA.
SO THE CONNECTION THAT WE SHOW IS A CONNECTION DIRECTLY TO BROAD BRANCH DRIVE, NOT ON MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
AND I HOPE, UH, I HOPE TO HAVE IT UP ON THE SCREEN IN A MINUTE.
BUT THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE QUICKLY, UH, BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME, IS THAT, UH, THE PLANNING OF THIS AREA IS IMPORTANT.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS CHARGED WITH, WITH CARRYING FORTH THE WILL OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT REZONINGS CONSISTENT WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
YOU SHOULD, THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION SHOULD NOT BE IN A POSITION WHERE IT HAS A, IT MAKES A DECISION WHICH RECOMMENDS A DEFACTO CHANGE TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT HAS NOT BEEN LEGISLATED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
WE'LL TRY TO PULL THAT UP FOR YOU.
ASH DRIVE, I DON'T THINK THIS, IS IT UP ON ASH DRIVE
[01:15:01]
WORKS OR NOT? I DON'T KNOW IF IT WORKS.UH, WHICH ONE IS IT? IT'S THE EXHIBIT, THE SECOND ONE.
UH, SO, SO HERE, HERE IT IS ON THE SCREEN.
SO YOU, IT IT'S VERY MUCH DIFFERENT FROM WHAT, UH, THE HH, UH, HUNT REPRESENTATIVE, UH, UH, SHOWED YOU.
IT'S A DIRECT CONNECTION TO BROAD BRANCH DRIVE OSAS NO IMPACT UPON MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
AND IT ALLOWS SIGNIFICANTLY, AS STAFF SAYS IN THE STAFF REPORT, THE AREA THAT IS PLANNED FOR PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO ACTUALLY DEVELOP AT PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE FUTURE, THE PROFFER THAT'S BEFORE YOU WOULD PROHIBIT ALL ROAD CONSTRUCTION IN THIS AREA BEFORE THE 2040 MTP IS EVEN DECIDED UPON.
SO THAT WOULD BE A DEFACTO, UH, CHANGE TO THE PLANNING OF THIS AREA AS STAFF HAS SET IN THE STAFF REPORT TO PROHIBIT ESSENTIALLY DEVELOPMENT CONSISTENT WITH THE, THE NATURE OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS DEVELOPED HAS, HAS LEGISLATED.
SO YOU WOULD SIMPLY PREEMPT THE 2040 MTP PLANNING, UH, FOR ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WOULD ALLOW THIS AREA TO DEVELOP.
AND IT WOULD HAPPEN THROUGH SEVERAL MEANS, AS STATED BY THE HH HUNT REPRESENTATIVE.
IT WOULD, IT WOULD PROHIBIT A CONNECTION.
IT WOULD PROHIBIT ALL ROAD CONSTRUCTION, INCLUDING A ROAD CONNECTION, SUCH AS SHOWN HERE THAT WOULD ALLOW THAT DEVELOPMENT TO HAPPEN.
AND AGAIN, UH, THAT IS INCONSISTENT WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
I NEED TO EMPHASIZE ONE MORE TIME THAT, THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN RECOMMENDING ZONING AND REZONINGS AND MAP AMENDMENTS SHOULD MAKE DECISIONS CONSISTENT WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UH, THEY SHOULD CERTAINLY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ANY NEGATIVE IMPACT UPON THE EXISTING COMMUNITY.
BUT BECAUSE OF THIS CONNECTION AS OPPOSED TO THE ONE YOU SAW EARLIER, THERE IS NO NEGATIVE IMPACT.
THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE, THE PROBLEMS AND THE ENGINEERING CHALLENGES OF MAKING THAT CONNECTION.
WELL, AS, AS, UH, MR. KLINGER SAID, IT CAN BE DONE, NOTHING'S IMPOSSIBLE.
UH, BUT WHAT WE WOULD PROPOSE IS, A, TO THE EXTENT THE COMMISSION IS GONNA RE RE RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS, IT SHOULD RECOMMEND THAT, UH, THAT THE, UH, APPROVAL BE WITH RE WOULD INTEGRATE THIS PLAN AS A POSSIBLE ROAD CONNECTION SHOULD THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ADOPTED AS PART OF THE FUTURE MTP UH, UH, EFFORT.
AND, UH, AND, AND AGAIN, IT WOULD HAVE NO NEGATIVE IMPACT UPON MOSAIC BOULEVARD.
CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? SURE.
SO YOU PRESENTED THIS PROPOSED ROAD HERE.
UM, HAS VOT LOOKED AT THIS AND SAID THAT IT'S IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL OF THEIR REQUIREMENTS? NO, IT'S NOT AT AN ENGINEERING DETAIL.
AND, AND THERE HAS BEEN NO OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT SORT OF INPUT FROM VDOT.
SOMEBODY, I I THINK, YEAH, IT WAS, UH, MR. ROSENBERG, UH, SUGGESTED THAT TWO ROADS THIS CLOSE TOGETHER WOULD BE A VIOLATION FOR VDOT.
WELL, IT, IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS CALLED AN ACCESS MANAGEMENT EXCEPTION THAT CAN BE HAD, UH, AND THAT COULD BE ENGINEERED AT, AT SITE PLAN.
UM, BUT THE ALTERNATIVE IS TO GO, UH, TO DO EXACTLY WHAT THE RESIDENTS DON'T WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN.
AND THAT IS TO GO UP INTO THE MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD, THAT'S A MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
UH, SO AND SO WE THINK THIS IS A BETTER SOLUTION, AND VDOT HAS A PROCEDURE FOR ACCESS MANAGEMENT EXCEPTIONS.
UH, THERE'S A CERTAIN PROCEDURE YOU NEED TO GO THROUGH WHEN YOU GET TO SITE PLAN, BUT IT CAN BE DONE.
NOW, THE SIZE OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD GO ON THESE SOUTHERN PROPERTIES WOULD CERTAINLY DRIVE TURN LANE REQUIREMENTS.
WOULD THEY, WOULD THEY REQUIRE A REPLACEMENT OF THAT BRIDGE EVEN? WELL, IT'S ALL, THIS IS UNKNOWN.
ALL THIS IS UNKNOWN BECAUSE, BECAUSE WE'RE, UH, WE'RE AT A PLANNING STAGE NOW, RIGHT.
AND OUR BASIC MESSAGE IS THAT IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND MAKING A, A RECOMMENDATION ON A PARTICULAR REZONING SHOULD NOT FORESTALL, UH, PLANNING, UH, INITIATIVES THAT ARE ONGOING.
THE SIS STUDY, FOR EXAMPLE, AND THE MTP, IF I MAY, I THINK WE'RE STEERING OFF OUR FOCUS TONIGHT HERE.
THIS IS FUTURE INTEREST AND REALLY NOT WHAT I DISAGREE.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE DECISIONS CONSISTENT WITH I UNDERSTAND, SIR.
AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DESIGNATED THIS AREA IS PRIME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
[01:20:01]
BUT THAT'S NOT OUR PURVIEW TONIGHT.WELL, YOU'RE MAKING THIS ZONING DECISION.
NEED TO DO IT AGAINST THE BACKGROUND.
HELLO CHAIRMAN AND, UH, COMMISSIONERS.
UM, I, FORGIVE ME, I FORGET, INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
I'M A RESIDENT OF MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
UM, CAN YOU PROVIDE YOUR ADDRESS, MS. CARROLL? IT IS 1 5 6 4 1 MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
AND, UH, THE GENTLEMAN WHO SPOKE BEFORE ME, FORGIVE ME, I DON'T REMEMBER YOUR NAME, THE PLAN HE SHOWED WE'VE ALL NEVER SEEN BEFORE.
I JUST WANT THE COMMISSION TO KNOW THAT WE'VE ONLY SEEN THE ONES THAT HH HUNT DEVELOPMENT PROPOSED.
UM, SO I WANT TO BRING THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION.
UH, AND IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN ON BROAD BRANCH BOULEVARD, UM, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR ANOTHER ENTRANCE.
IT'S, THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH ROOM.
THERE'S, THERE'S A BRIDGE, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF LAND, AND THERE'S OUR ENTRANCE AND THAT'S IT.
SO, UM, I DON'T WANT YOU ALL TO THINK THAT THAT PROPOSAL WAS PRESENTED TO US.
ANYBODY ELSE, PLEASE? YEAH, I INTRODUCE JUST PLEASE AND YOUR MY NAME IS TOM CHETLAND.
I'M A RESIDENT OF MOSAIC CREEK OH 1 5 6 2 0 MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD.
AND, UH, MY CONCERN IS WE DON'T KNOW THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY'RE PUTTING IN, IS THAT GONNA BE A SENIOR COMMUNITY OR IS THAT GONNA BE OPEN TO YOUNGSTERS AND KIDS AND TEENAGERS AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT? AND THE REASON I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT IS BECAUSE THEY'RE DRIVING HABITS.
PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT SENIORS AND HAVE TO GO TO WORK EVERY DAY AND ARE 10 MINUTES LATE, OR THEY'RE GONNA SPEED THROUGH WHATEVER WAY THEY WANT TO GO TO GET THERE FASTER.
SO IF THEY HAVE ACCESS TO MO MOSAIC CREEK BOULEVARD, ESPECIALLY YOUNGER KIDS, THEY GOTTA GET TO SCHOOL OR SOMETHING.
THEY GET IN THE CAR AND THEY WANT TO GO, ALL RIGHT, I'M TRYING TO CROSS THE STREET.
I GOT A BAD KNEE HERE THAT CAN'T GO FAST.
SO I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IF THEY'RE, IF IT'S A 55 PLUS COMMUNITY OR IT'S JUST AN OPEN COMMUNITY WITH LITTLE CHILDREN AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
UM, AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE, UH, THE, UH, THE OTHER THING THAT THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO ON, UH, BROAD BRANCH AVENUE, UH, GOING UP, THAT'S A, THAT'S A, THAT'S A DIVIDED HIGH HIGHWAY, I BELIEVE UP.
THEY HAVE A, A WALL UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT LANE, SO YOU CAN'T TURN LEFT WHEN YOU COME OUT ONTO THAT, FROM THAT IN, FROM THAT DIAGRAM, YOU CAN ONLY GO, RIGHT.
THAT WOULD ALL HAVE TO BE RE-ENGINEERED TO GO LEFT IF THEY WANTED TO GO LEFT.
AND I, AND I WOULD LIKE SOMEBODY FROM THIS, UM, THIS, UM, BODY HERE TO, UH, GO THERE IN THE MORNING WHEN IT'S TIME FOR THE SHIFT CHANGE INTO, UH, CAPITAL ONE DRIVE.
'CAUSE THAT'S, THEY GO, I'M TELLING YOU NOW, 50, 60 MILES AN HOUR BOTH WAYS TO GET TO WORK AND LEAVE WORK.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S A DANGEROUS PROPOSITION, YOU KNOW.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY TONIGHT.
I APOLOGIZE, I DIDN'T REMEMBER YOUR NAME, BUT I LIVE IN, I'M, I REPRESENT DISTRICT FIVE.
I LIVE RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD FROM MOSAIC, AND I HAVE WATCHED THAT AREA.
I HAVE BEEN OVER IN THAT AREA.
AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY CORRECT.
I ALSO AM A MO RESIDENT OF MOSAIC.
UH, MY ADDRESS IS 1 4 0 0 5 MOSAIC NOOK.
UH, THE TUCKAHOE CREEK PARKWAY AND THE WEST CREEK PARKWAYS ARE ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL.
THEY'RE VERY PARK-LIKE, AND DURING THE WEEKENDS, IT IS VERY MUCH USED AS A RECREATION.
AND THE BICYCLIST AND THE RUNNERS HAVE DISCOVERED, UH, THAT OUR COMMUNITY IS THE GATEWAY TO CONNECT THE TWO OF THEM.
AND, UH, COMING HERE THIS EVENING, THERE WERE PEOPLE OUT THERE WITH, UH,
[01:25:01]
A GROUPING OF FIVE BICYCLISTS WITH LIGHTS ON BICYCLING IN THE AREA AFTER DARK ON THE WEEKENDS.YOU CAN SEE GROUPS OF PELOTONS OF 20 TO 25 BICYCLISTS DRIVING THROUGH THERE, AND MANY, MANY PEOPLE RUNNING THROUGH THERE.
SO I ASK WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPERVISOR, SO TO THE COMMISSIONERS, UH, THAT YOU TAKE IN MIND THE SAFETY AND THE RECREATIONAL ASPECTS OF THAT COMMUNITY ALSO.
THE BOARD, UM, DANIEL IS THOMAS NOLAN.
I LIVE AT 7 1 1 9 MONTAGE ROAD MOSAIC, AND I HEARD SEVERAL PEOPLE TONIGHT TALK ABOUT HIM, REINFORCE IT AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FOR TH 28 YEARS IN PUBLIC STATE FOR 38 YEARS.
WHAT YOU, WHAT THE PROPOSED TONIGHT AND WAS LOOKING AT TONIGHT WAS TWO ENTRANCES.
I HEARD YOU ABOUT SIGHT LINES BEFORE.
IT'S GONNA BE, UH, A DIFFICULT SITUATION TO MAKE A, A VISUAL WITH THAT DESCENT FROM THE BRIDGE AND OF THE SPEEDS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT.
IT'S A DANGEROUS PROPOSAL TO MOVE FORWARD ON OFFERING THAT CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THOSE TWO ROADS.
UM, STRONGLY, I THINK YOU TO LOOK AT THAT SAFETY ISSUES HERE.
ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION OF STAFF? UM, MR. KLINGER, UH, PROPO OR SHOWED A, UH, AN ACCESS TO THOSE PROPERTIES, UH, ON COUNTRY CLUB ROAD FROM THE SOUTH? MM-HMM,
UM, IS THAT A LEGITIMATE, UM, WAY TO ACCESS THAT PROPERTY? OR IS THAT, IS THAT FOR UM, WELL, OF COURSE I DON'T HAVE THIS IMAGE.
UM, UH, NO, ACTUALLY THAT'S NOT A, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WOULD REQUIRE UNDER A THIRD OF OUR PLAN OR UNDER PUBLIC.
IT SHOULD BE A PUBLIC ROAD THAT IS A PRIVATE ROAD.
UM, ACTUALLY GOES THROUGH SEVERAL, MULTIPLE PROPERTIES.
UM, AS FAR AS WHAT THE CONDITION IS OF THAT FOR IT TO BE A DEVELOPMENT ACCESS? NO, THAT, THAT DOESN'T, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER A UN APPROVABLE ACCESS.
AND ONE, THE QUESTION RE CONDITIONS.
YOU DID SAY THAT YARD BRANCH DRIVE OR AVENUE, WHATEVER IT'S, UH, IS, UH, IS ALREADY RATED AN AN F FOR TRAFFIC.
THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE.
AND AGAIN, UM, WE DON'T HAVE A RECENT THERE.
UPDATED TRAFFIC STUDY WITH, WITH THIS APPLICATION IT WAS BEFORE.
SO I CAN'T STATE, UM, WHAT THE CURRENT CONDITION IS.
UM, I DO APPRECIATE ALL THE EMAILS THAT WE GOT AND ALL OF, UM, UH, EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE GOTTEN.
UM, IT'S, IT'S NICE TO SEE ENGAGEMENT IN THE COMMUNITY.
SO I DO APPRECIATE YOU SPEAKING AND I DO APPRECIATE EVERYONE THAT CAME OUT.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, MR. CHAIRMAN? I SO MOVE SINCE IT'S IN MY DISTRICT OF DISTRICT FIVE, I MOVE THAT THE COMMISSION RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF REZONING RZ 2024 DASH 0 0 0 0 9.
I THINK I GOT ALL THOSE ZEROS CORRECT.
THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL PASSES ON A FIVE OH VOTE.
THIS CASE WILL BE SCHEDULED FOR PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON DECEMBER 3RD, 2024, WITH A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
GIVE THE ROOM A MOMENT AND YOU CAN, YOU CAN STAY OR YOU CAN LEAVE.
[01:32:11]
OUR LAST PUBLIC HEARING ITEM TONIGHT IS COUNTYWIDE, DOA 20 24 3 PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, COUNTY CODE CHAPTER 15, SECTION 15, 4 21.SIGN REGULATION BY ZONING DISTRICTS OR LOCATION.
AND SECTION 15 500 DEFINITIONS TO ADJUST ALLOWABLE SIGNAGE FOR OFFICE AND INDUSTRIAL PARKS.
ALRIGHT, THANK YOU MS. PARKER.
AGAIN, UH, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION STATE ONCE AGAIN FOR THE RECORD, MADAM MS. RAY CASH, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.
UM, OOH, I THINK I HAVE A, MIGHT HAVE THE WRONG PRESENTATION UP.
UM, THIS IS AN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT COUNTYWIDE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.
BUT BEFORE YOU, UM, SPECIFICALLY RELATES TO AMENDING OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE, UM, THERE IS SEVERAL CHANGES PROPOSED IN HERE.
UM, THE REASON WE'VE UNDERTAKEN THESE CHANGES IN PART STARTED WITH SOME CONVERSATIONS, UH, DIRECTED IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO THE LACK OF SIGNAGE OR SIGNAGE OPPORTUNITIES FOR OUR INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES AND INDUSTRIAL PARKS.
UM, WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN PROPERTIES IN OUR KENO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREAS THAT HAVE LIMITED, UM, AVAILABILITY OF ENTRANCE SIGNAGE.
UH, WE RECOGNIZE THAT ALSO THERE'S SOME SIGN DESIGN AND STANDARDS AND HEIGHTS THAT ARE A LITTLE CONFUSING WITHIN OUR CODE.
THERE'S ALSO SOME CONTRADICTIONS WITHIN THE EXISTING TABLE WE'LL TALK ABOUT TONIGHT.
UM, ANOTHER SMALLER BUT MINOR THING IS REALLY DIRECTION ABOUT WALL SIGNAGE.
UM, THERE WAS SOME CONTRADICTION BETWEEN EXISTING LANGUAGE IN THE TABLE.
UM, WE WANTED TO CLEAN UP THAT FORM TABLE AND REALLY UNIQUELY WE NEEDED TO DEFINE THE TERM OFFICE PARK.
WE REFER, REFER TO IT SEVERAL TIMES IN THE ORDINANCE, BUT TECHNICALLY WE DON'T DEFINE IT.
THINK WE KNOW WHAT IT IS, BUT THE ORDINANCE DOESN'T SAY WHAT.
IT'S, UM, THIS IS THE TABLE AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS.
I WOULD HIGH NOTE SOME HIGHLIGHTED THINGS HERE.
UM, TALKS ABOUT FOR OFFICE, UM, FOR SHOPPING CENTERS, OFFICE PARKS, INDUSTRIAL PARKS.
UM, YOU'RE ALLOWED A FREESTANDING SIGN IN SOME AREA, BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY SIGNS WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT.
ANOTHER ONE THAT REFERENCES, AND THIS IS A KEY AREA OF THE COUNTY IN THE 2 88, UM, BETWEEN BROAD STREET, I MEAN HENRICO COUNTY AND 2 88 ALONG BROAD, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED, BUT ONE, UM, SIGNED FOR THE DEVELOPMENT REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY ENTRANCES YOU MAY HAVE.
SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ENTRANCE SIGNAGE SPECIFICALLY, WE HAVE SOME EXAMPLES HERE THAT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IT KIND OF HAD PUT TOGETHER TO SHOW POSSIBILITIES FOR INDUSTRIAL PROJECTS.
AND THESE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE THE, AT THE ENTRANCE TO THE PROPERTY.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT MOST INDUSTRIAL PARKS, UM, APPROPRIATELY, YOU DON'T WANT THEM STRETCHED OUT ALONG ROADS OR ACTIVITY OR REALLY THROUGH ROADS.
UM, IT'S GREAT JUST LIKE ANOTHER, LIKE A SUBDIVISION FOR RESIDENTIAL.
[01:35:01]
THERE.UH, THE PROPERTIES ARE COMBINED OR COLLECTED TOGETHER, TYPICALLY ON A PUBLIC OR PRIVATE STREET WITH MULTIPLE USERS.
UM, YOU DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY LIKE YOU DO IN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS, UH, OR A TYPICAL SHOP AND CENTER WITH INLINE TENANTS.
THERE'S NOT THE ABILITY FOR THEM TO PUT UP SIGNAGE FOR PEOPLE TO SEE THAT THEY'RE BACK THERE.
YOU THINK THAT THESE ARE ALSO HEAVILY TRUCK ORIENTED BUSINESSES.
OFTEN YOU NEED THE ABILITY THAT GIVES DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT INFORMATION TO DESCRIBE THE USERS THAT ARE WITHIN THAT PART.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT COMMERCIAL CENTERS, UM, IT IS IMPORTANT FOR SHOPPING CENTERS, ESPECIALLY ONES THAT BECOME LARGER OR STRETCHED OUT, IS THAT YOU WON'T, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY FOR MULTIPLE ENTRANCE SIGNAGE.
NOW WHAT WE'RE, UH, PARTICULARLY TALKING ABOUT THIS IS THE EXAMPLE HERE IS FOUR RINGS, WHICH IS LOCATED, UM, ADJACENT ON BROAD STREET ADJACENT TO 2 88.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY THAT EACH OF THOSE ENTRANCES DO HAVE SIGNAGE.
UM, WE'LL TALK ABOUT HOW WE'RE GONNA SORT OF CODIFY THAT, BUT THESE ARE THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT UNDER THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, UH, THERE IS LIMITED TO ONE ENTRANCE SIGN PER PROJECT IN MOST, MOST AREAS OF THE COUNTY.
UM, INTERNALLY, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED ANY FREESTANDING SIGNAGE ON INTERNAL LOTS WITHIN THOSE OFFICE PARKS OR INDUSTRIAL PARKS.
WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING WITH THE ORDINANCE HERE IS THAT WE ALLOW ONE SIGN PER ENTRANCE, NOT JUST FOR THE PROJECT ITSELF.
IT WOULD SHARE COLLECTIVELY A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE.
FOR INSTANCE, YOU HAVE 120 SQUARE FEET THAT'S ALLOWED FOR THE PROJECT.
YOU COULD HAVE ONE SIDE WITH 60, ONE WITH SIX, ANOTHER 60, OR YOU CAN MIX AND MATCH, YOU KNOW, AND REALLY THAT'S FOCUSED ON WHICH THEIR PROMINENT ENTRANCE.
AND THEN THAT HELPS YOU ALSO GUIDE TO WHICH PARTICULAR USERS ARE LOCATING THAT PART OF A CENTER.
UM, WE ALSO, UM, WERE LOOKING FOR INDUSTRIAL AND OFFICE PARKS SPECIFICALLY.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT HOW THEY'RE LAID OUT MORE LIKE SUBDIVISIONS WITH BIG, LARGE INDIVIDUAL PARCELS, UM, WE WOULD PROPOSE THERE'S ADDITIONAL FREESTANDING SIGNAGE ON EACH OF THE PARCELS.
UM, ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR INDUSTRIAL AS A REFERENCE FOR, THAT'S A LOT OF TRUCK TRAFFIC AND POTENTIAL USERS.
UM, WE ALSO LOOK FOR GROUND ONE OF DESIGN AND BRICKSTONE COMPATIBLE MATERIALS.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT ANY SIGN THAT'S GOING FORWARD IN THE FUTURE REALLY HAS SOME QUALITY DESIGN TO IT.
YOU ALSO SEE THAT'S THE MOST COMMON IN THE MARKET OUT THERE TODAY FOR SHOPPING CENTERS AS WE'RE REPOSE.
WE'LL CLARIFY AGAIN, ONE SIGN PER MINUTE PER ENTRANCE AND YOU SHARE THAT HAVE CUMULATIVE SIGNAGE AREA.
BUT FOR SHOPPING CENTERS, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT FREESTANDING SIGNS, BE IT PERMITTED FOR INDIVIDUAL USERS.
AS YOU MOST SHOPPING CENTERS, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT'S MORE COLLECTIVELY COLLECTIVE SHARED PARKING WITHIN A SHOPPING CENTER OF AREAS, A LOT OF INLINE TENANTS.
IT'S NOT REALLY OPPORTUNITIES FOR ADDITIONAL FREESTANDING, UM, SIGNAGE.
UM, WE LOOKED AT THE, THERE'S INCONSISTENT DESIGN ELEMENTS OUT THERE FOR SIGNAGE.
UM, SPECIFICALLY ABOUT, UM, HOW HEIGHTS ARE WE VARY FROM SIGN TO SIGN DIFFERENT TYPES, UM, WHAT THE SIGNS ARE MADE OF, WHAT'S THE APPEARANCE.
UM, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING IS TRYING TO CLARIFY THOSE DISTINCTIONS.
LOOKING TO BRING SIGNS A LITTLE BIT CLOSER DOWN IN SCALE.
UM, YOU KNOW, TYPICAL SIGNS THAT WE SEE IN OUR OVERLAYS ARE 10 FEET LIMITATION.
UM, THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE COUNTY, WE DON'T HAVE THAT LIMITATION.
WE'RE PROPOSING TO SOME, SOME LITTLE BIT OF REDUCTION.
ALSO TO THINK OF, UM, YOU KNOW, ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL, THERE'S A PROVISION ALREADY IN THE ORDINANCE THAT'S CLARIFIED, NEEDS TO BE 15 FEET, WHERE IT'S ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IS REALLY CLARIFY THE WALL SIGNS RATHER THAN DUSTED ADDRESSED IN THE TABLE.
WE'LL JUST REFER TO THE REQUIREMENTS IN FOUR 18 WHERE IT'S MORE OF A TEXTUAL, UM, AREA THAT TALKS ABOUT MEASUREMENT AND DESIGN.
SO AGAIN, HERE'S OUR CURRENT TABLES.
IF YOU NOTICE THERE'S A LOT OF LANGUAGE WITHIN THE TABLE THAT HAS TEXT TO IT.
AND SO WHAT'S THE POINT IN THE TABLE, IF EVER? THERE'S SO MANY WORDS TO IT.
THE IDEA IS PEOPLE COULD LOOK QUICKLY, FIGURE OUT WHAT SIGN THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, UM, AND FIND OUT THE REQUIREMENT.
WE ALSO NOTED THE WAY IT'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN.
THERE'S SOME INCONSISTENCY IN THE LANGUAGE.
SO REALLY WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR THIS CLEANUP IS TO REALLY LOOK AT DESCRIBING THE SPECIFIC TYPE OF SIGN OR LOCATION THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, GIVEN THE BASIC INFORMATION TO THE SIZE THAT THE SIZE THAT'S IMPORTANT.
FOR INSTANCE, THIS IS REALLY NUMBER OF SIGNS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ALLOWANCE, THE SETBACK AND THE HEIGHT AND HAVE FOOTNOTES THAT REALLY DESCRIBES WHAT THAT ADDITIONAL PROVISION IS.
UM, AND SO IF YOU NOTICE THERE'S A COMMONALITY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE, UH, 10 APPLIES TO A COUPLE FIVE, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT NUMBERS APPLY TO DIFFERENT THINGS.
AND REMEMBER, THIS IS A SMALL SECTION OF THAT SIGN TABLE.
SO IT'S A LARGER TABLE THAT CURRENTLY I BELIEVE TAKES UP FOUR PAGES IN THE ORDINANCE.
SO IF WE CAN ACCUMULATE, YOU KNOW, REDUCE THE TEXT WITHIN THE TABLE ITSELF, PUT IT AT FOOTNOTES AT THE BOTTOM,
[01:40:01]
UM, THE IDEA IS TO MAKE IT MORE CONSISTENT, MORE EASILY ACCESSIBLE FOR PEOPLE.HOPEFULLY PREVENT SOME CONFUSION.
UM, THIS WAS, THIS PRESENTATION, SORRY, WAS FROM MY COMMUNITY MEETING THAT NO ONE ELSE ATTENDED.
UM, BUT THIS IS THE, BUT THE, FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, THE ESSENTIAL INFORMATION IS THE SAME.
UM, AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE SEE IS, UM, SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY BENEFICIAL TO OUR BUSINESSES, UM, ESPECIALLY OUR INDUSTRIAL PARKS THAT REALLY, UM, IF YOU'VE EVER DRIVEN BY ONE OF OUR INDUSTRIAL PARKS, YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED IT.
UM, AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHO'S BACK THERE.
AND IT'S, IT, IT'S MADE SOME OF THESE ENTRANCES NOT VERY ATTRACTIVE.
WE HOPE WITH THIS POTENTIAL FOR SIGNAGE, IT ACTUALLY WILL ENHANCE THE USERS IN THERE, MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF MORE AWARE OF THE USERS WITHIN THERE AND REALLY IMPROVE THE, UM, APPEARANCE OF THOSE ENTRANCES IN OUR ROADWAYS AND STAFF IS AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
SO THE ONE YOU REFERENCED, UH, FOUR RINGS, WHICH IS LARRY PAGE, AUDI MM-HMM.
IT'S NOT SHAKE SHACK, RIGHT? SHACK IN THE BACK.
IS THAT A SIGN THAT'S WORKING WELL BECAUSE IT HAS EVERY INDIVIDUAL, UH, RIGHT.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND OVER TIME WHAT WE'VE DONE FOR THAT ONE, WE'VE HAD TO CONSIDER PART OF THAT AREA A DIFFERENT PROJECT BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS SET.
UM, AND THAT'S REALLY, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE ENTRANCES.
THOSE ARE CLEARLY DISTINCT DIFFERENT USERS WITHIN THERE.
IF YOU THINK WHERE THE SIGN IS, SO FOUR RINGS, WHERE THE WAWA IS, THAT PROPERTY BACK THERE IS REALLY UNDEVELOPED.
THERE'S NOT THE ROAD CONNECTIONS, HOWEVER, OVER BY CHICK-FIL-A AND THE ALLEY DEALERSHIP.
THERE ARE USERS THERE AND IT TAKES YOU BACK TO JOHN SHAFT AND, AND YOU KNOW, OTHER USERS.
UM, SO REALLY FOR THOSE TYPE OF OPPORTUNITIES, YOU SHOULD HAVE INFORMATION AT EACH, EACH ENTRANCE.
UM, YOU KNOW, BUT OF COURSE YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE STILL BEING FAIR TO OTHER USERS WHERE YOU'RE KEEPING THEIR SORT OF, THEIR CUMULATIVE AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE WITHIN SCALE OR WITHIN WITH SHARE.
BUT DO SIGNS INCLUDE FLAGS? UM, THE WAY OUR ORDINANCE IS DEFINED FLAG IS ACTUALLY DISTINGUISHED DIFFERENT WITHIN THE PROVISIONS.
WHO'S IN CHARGE OF MAINTAINING THESE SIGNS AND KEEPING UP TO DATE? AND I, I THINK BACK TO A COUPLE OTHER, UM, COMMERCIAL AREAS THAT HAVE BUSINESSES LISTED IN THERE THAT HAVEN'T BEEN THERE IN FIVE OR SIX YEARS OR, AND YOU GO, WELL, THEY'RE NOT, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE YOGA PLACE IS NO LONGER HERE.
SO WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THAT? THE RADIO SHACK STILL HERE.
IT'S ACTUALLY UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL CENTER OWNER.
UM, UH, A LOT OF TIMES IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT BETWEEN DIFFERENT PARKS.
THERE'S OFTEN WITH A PARK, THERE COULD BE A BUSINESS, UM, OWNER'S ASSOCIATION.
UM, OR YOU COULD HAVE THE OVERALL OWNER OF THE, UM, OF THE INDUSTRIAL PARK OR SHOPPING CENTER THERE, OR, OR MANAGEMENT, WHOEVER'S MANAGED IT, THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SURE THE SIGN IS UP KEPT AND, AND USUALLY THE TURNOVER OF USERS.
I WILL SAY NOT EVERY CENTER DOES GREAT DOING THAT.
ARE WE ALLOWED AS STAFF FOR, UM, TO, TO GO TO THEM AND SAY, HEY, LET, LET, LET'S UPDATE YOUR SIGN.
LIKE LET'S, YOU KNOW, LET'S TELL THE PUBLIC WHAT'S ACTUALLY, UM, NO, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY WHEN IT COMES TO A LOT OF THE STUFF OF CONTENT FOR THE SIGN STAFF THAT DOES NOT LEGALLY HAVE SOME, ANYONE AUTHORITY FOR THAT BEFORE MS. MCGEE JUMPS UP OVER THERE?
WE, SHE AND I ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THAT, UM, THAT POTENTIAL RULING.
UM, IT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD HOPE THAT THE USERS WHO INVEST IN THESE SIGNS USE THEM APPROPRIATELY TO SERVE THEIR BUSINESS AND DRAW ATTRACTION TO THEIR, UM, WE DO ALREADY CURRENTLY DO HAVE PROVISIONS IN THE CODE ABOUT UPKEEP OF SIGNS, UM, AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, IF A BUSINESS CLOSES TO ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THAT THICK, THAT SIGN DOWN.
UM, BUT AGAIN, WE ARE, WE'RE COMPLAINT BASED UNLESS IT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY LOOKS LIKE A, A DAMAGE POTENTIAL, IT'S LEANING INTO THE RIGHT OF WAY TYPE THING.
WE, WE WON'T TYPICALLY TAKE THE ACTION, BUT WE'RE HOPING WITH THIS AND SOME OF THE WORK THAT SARAH AND THE ECONOMIC EDA HAS BEEN TRYING TO DO, HOPEFULLY THIS BE ONE OF THE THINGS WE'LL BE ABLE TO PROMOTE, UM, IMPROVE SIGNAGE AND HOPEFULLY SOME GOOD INVESTMENT IN THAT AREA.
I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING ABOUT LIGHTING.
IS THAT INCLUDED IN THIS OR IS THESE ARE ALL UNLIT SIGNS? IT'S NO, THERE ARE SITE POSITION, UM, PROVISIONS WITHIN THE CODE.
THEY'RE JUST NOT ADDRESSED IN THE PARTICULAR SECTIONS WE WERE LOOKING AT.
I, I APPRECIATE YOUR INITIATIVE AND WANTING TO CLEAN UP AND REDUCE AMBIGUITY AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT AS YOU SAY, YOU'RE COMPLAINT BASED.
WERE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE, UH, THE ORDINANCE AS IT, UH, CURRENTLY IS? WELL, WE LOOKED AT AS WE HAD RECEIVED CONCERN ABOUT OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE ENTRANCE SIGNAGE.
UM, THERE WAS CONCERN FOR OPPORTUNITY FOR INTERIOR USES OF INDUSTRIAL PARKS TO HAVE SOME FREESTANDING ON SITE SIGNAGE.
UM, THE ORDINANCE, UH, AS IT WAS CURRENTLY SET
[01:45:01]
UP, IT DID ALLOW BEFORE THE FREESTANDING SIGNAGE AT THE ENTRANCE, IT'S A LITTLE UNCLEAR THE WAY IT WAS SET UP.I MEAN AT, YOU KNOW, ONE PER PROJECT, BUT MOST OF THESE TYPE OF CENTERS MAY HAVE ONE OR TWO ENTRANCES, COULD HAVE MULTIPLE ENTRANCES.
UM, SOMETIMES IF YOU THINK OF DIFFERENT SHOPPING CENTERS, THEY'RE ACTUALLY ON DIFFERENT ROADS, YOU KNOW, SO IF YOU KNOW, JUST ACROSS THE STREET OVER HERE YOU HAVE, UM, ACCESS ON SANDY HOOK AND YOU HAVE THE ACCESS ON FAIRGROUNDS, TYPICALLY A SCENARIO IT SHOULD BE PER ENTRANCE RATHER THAN ONE PER PROJECT BECAUSE WHICH ROAD IS MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU TO ADVERTISE OFF OF? UM, SO IT WASN'T, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WE SAW.
THERE WERE GREAT FLAWS IN THE ORDINANCE.
WE SAW THAT THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO FIX SOME THINGS TO MAKE IT BETTER.
IT DOES SOUND LIKE IT'S MOSTLY INTERNALLY DRIVEN.
CONVERSATIONS WE HEARD FROM, FROM USERS THAT THAT WAS A PROBLEM.
I MOVE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMEND APPROVAL.
UM, UM, MR. PAT, EXCUSE ME, A PUBLIC HEARING.
I OPEN TO PUBLIC HEARING YOUR MICROPHONE'S OFF.
MR. CHAIRMAN COMMISSION MEMBERS.
I LIVE AT 1511 RIVERVIEW ROAD, MAIDENS, VIRGINIA IN DISTRICT THREE.
UM, MR. KIMBERLY, I'D LIKE TO GIVE YOU A COMPLAINT.
UM, RECENTLY I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL TO TWO OF THE DIFFERENT OFFICE PARKS IN GLAND COUNTY.
ONCE I GOT INSIDE, I DROVE AROUND FOR 20 MINUTES TRYING TO FIND THE PARTICULAR PLACE I WAS LOOKING FOR.
NO INTERNAL SIGNAGE, TINY SIGNS ON THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES.
LIKE YOU ALMOST HAVE TO GET UP AND WALK UP TO THE DOOR TO READ WHETHER IT'S THE RIGHT PLACE.
UM, I DEFINITELY AGREE THAT THAT PROVISION NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
UM, I CAN SEE WHERE THE CONCERN ABOUT MULTIPLE ENTRANCES, UM, ESPECIALLY WITH THE FOUR RINGS AREA.
UH, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S BACK THERE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH ROAD TO TAKE.
THAT WOULD BE ALSO VERY HELPFUL.
UH, MOST OF THE SHOPPING CENTERS, THEY HAVE ILLUMINATED SIGNS.
THEY'RE RELATIVELY EASY TO SEE.
UH, YOU CAN SEE 'EM FROM THE ROADWAY EVEN IF THERE'S A SETBACK.
UH, BUT THE OFFICE PROJECTS OR THE INDUSTRIAL PROJECTS, NOT A CHANCE.
ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? DISCUSSION NOW I MOVE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO ADJUST SIGNAGE FOR OFFICE AND INDUSTRIAL PARKS.
THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL PASSES ON A FIVE OH VOTE.
THIS CASE WILL BE SCHEDULED FOR PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON JANUARY 7TH, 2025, WITH A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION, ANY OLD BUSINESS, NO OLD BUSINESS.
AND OUR OTHER ITEM IS, UH, DIRECTOR UPDATE.
GOOD EVENING, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, I'M JUST GOING TO GO THROUGH SOME IMPORTANT MEETINGS THAT, UM, YOU COULD BE, UH, TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF AS WELL AS THE FOLKS WHO ARE WATCHING AT HOME AND IN THE AUDIENCE.
UH, WE DO HAVE ON DECEMBER 3RD, AS MS. PARKER MENTIONED, UM, HH HUNT THE MOSAIC, UH, RE UH, REZONING FOR THE THREE LOT CASE IS GOING TO BE HEARD BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS A, UM, MEETING SCHEDULED ON THE 19TH OF DECEMBER.
THERE ARE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS.
WE HAVE A REQUEST FOR A, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN ASSEMBLY, A PUBLIC ASSEMBLY PLACE, AND A SHORT TERM RENTAL UNHOSTED, AS WELL AS, UH, A, UM, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, WHICH WILL, UM, AND DISTRICT FOUR, WHICH WILL INCREASE THE SIZE OF SOME EXISTING, UH, AN EXISTING CEP FOR ACCESSORY H HOUSING UNITS DETACHED.
AND, UM, ADD A HOME-BASED BUSINESS IF APPROVED.
THERE IS A COMMUNITY MEETING THAT IS SCHEDULED TO BE HELD ON DECEMBER 4TH AT 6:00 PM THIS IS AN APPLICATION, WHICH IS A PRE-APPLICATION BY JANINE
[01:50:01]
AND CORY HOFFER.UM, THEY PROPOSE TO, UH, REZONE A PROPERTY ON PATTERSON AVENUE FOR PROFESSIONAL OFFICE TO GO TO RESIDENT, UM, RESIDENTIAL OFFICE THAT, UH, THE UM, COMMUNITY COMMUNITY MEETING WILL BE HELD AT THE SITE LOCATION ON PATTERSON EVER.
SO IF YOU, UM, YOU'RE AWARE OF THE CREEK MOORE, UM, DEVELOPMENT, IT'S DIRECTLY WEST OF THAT ON PATTERSON AVENUE.
THERE'S, UM, A CURRENTLY A, AN ABANDONED HOUSE JUST BEFORE YOU GET TO THE GOLF COURSE, CORRECT? IT'S BETWEEN, UH, CREEKMORE AND THE UM, AND THE, AND THE GOLF COURSE.
IF THERE IS NO OTHER BUSINESS, THIS MEETING'S ADJOURNED.